Random Thoughts III.

[BomberPat]

2 minutes ago, Loki said:

The WWE had a major correction and also kind of reset everyone's finishers so you weren't kicking out of them multiple times. 

This is an important point. A large part of the conversation is around, "well, what can you do? The fans expect it now". But the fans can be conditioned to not expect it, the same way fans don't expect chairshots to the head or rampant blood loss any more. It's about working smart, and recognising that "working smart" varies from audience to audience.

[Devon Malcolm]

37 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

This is an important point. A large part of the conversation is around, "well, what can you do? The fans expect it now". But the fans can be conditioned to not expect it, the same way fans don't expect chairshots to the head or rampant blood loss any more. It's about working smart, and recognising that "working smart" varies from audience to audience.

Precisely. Remember the reaction when CM Punk hit a piledriver on John Cena on Raw that time? There's no reason why wrestling can't go 'backwards' to go forwards again.

[Carbomb]

It's also important to remember that fans, even smarks, aren't necessarily "set" so that only bigger and bigger spots will impress them. One of the upsides to knowing wrestling is a performance is that fans both experienced and casual can adjust their expectations accordingly in order to enjoy it. 

Recently, I went to see Kaiju Big Battel at Alexandra Palace, and it was a shit-ton of fun. The wrestling in the matches was very basic, very few big or complex moves, a fair few done quite sloppily in places, and the biggest spot they did was a top-rope huracanrana. But everything was centred around the sheer silliness of the promotion - wrestlers playing characters like kaiju monsters on LSD, like Unicorn Party, Dr. Cube, Dust Bunny, etc. Possibly the most unique feature about Big Battel is that they have loads of cardboard boxes painted to look like buildings in the ring by guys outside it dressed like builders, and whenever one of the wrestlers gets slammed on one, it gets a massive "OHHHHH!" like they were being thrown off the top of the cage. The slams are never more than body slams or regular suplexes.

Point being: there were loads of people there, including Progress fans who'd never seen a Kaiju Big Battel show before and didn't know what to expect, and, judging from the noise, everybody was into it. They all knew this was bloody silly stuff, and that the wrestling action was in itself nothing to write home about, but they treated everything like it was the big event of the weekend. There's a sort of implied agreement between fans and a promotion that, in essence, the promotion says "we will entertain you in this way", and the fans respond with "OK, we're liking how you're entertaining us". A bit how like someone might behave to their partner like he/she is the only person they one they've ever been with, even though both know that's utter bollocks.

[Wretch]

17 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said:

Agreed. Surely it will hit a wall at some point too, won't it? All the ridiculously dangerous moves that can be done will have been done and then where do the likes of Ospreay go?

This is what people were saying about ECW in the mid 90s. Yet all that stuff from then looks relatively tame to what was going on in the likes of CZW a decade or so later. Not a great comparison I'll admit but you know what I mean. 

I fear it's going to take someone dying in the ring before this style is given a second thought by the wrestlers. But we've just passed 10 years since Misawa was dropped on his head and was what was described as being decapitated in the ring and even that didn't stop anyone, in the long term anyway.

[The Maestro]

I'm watching a lot of early 90s Superstars and can't unsee the resemblance between Rocco of Legion of Doom and Gary Glitter. Gabbo Glitter if you will. At least he was never involved in Make a Wish.

[RedRooster]

On 6/19/2019 at 5:08 PM, Tommy! said:

Vending machines full of knickers and wasabi KitKat's have been a staple in Japan for years, doesn't make them right.

I realise I’m a few days late on this, but wasabi kitkats are absolutely amazing.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Well shag my arse, I didnt know TNT had blocks of programming called "Nitro" on different nights prior to WCW using the name. Imagine that now? WWE's Match of the Day on Tuesdays.

 

[Carbomb]

I always guessed that it was something to do with Turner being Southern, and the NASCAR/IndyCar link. 

[Mr Butternut Squash]

Looking at the WWE in Singapore results, honestly looks like a good show on paper. 

Apparently the Rollins vs Nakamura main event set off the "AEW" "CM PUNK!" chants, which shows that this nauseating 'get yourself over' mentality has more reach than I thought. Fucks sake.  

Also, that's yet another Seth Rollins match that has lost swathes of the audience, and there's no Baron Corbin, Dolph Ziggler, or post-character assassination Dean Ambrose to pin the blame on to. The audience just isn't engaged with the guy beyond popping for falcon arrows and BURN IT DOWN. Stick him back in the midcard already, he's fine there.

[Keith Houchen]

1 hour ago, Mr Butternut Squash said:

Looking at the WWE in Singapore results, honestly looks like a good show on paper. 

Apparently the Rollins vs Nakamura main event set off the "AEW" "CM PUNK!" chants, which shows that this nauseating 'get yourself over' mentality has more reach than I thought. Fucks sake.  

I wonder if there was an AEW superfan in Singapore over the last week?  Reckons he was there on business.  Yeah, the business of paying audience shills.

[SuperBacon]

8 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I wonder if there was an AEW superfan in Singapore over the last week?  Reckons he was there on business.  Yeah, the business of paying audience shills.

And we all now how he’d pay them. In UrethaBit or whatever was trending on Monday nights YouTube video

[kieranjennings]

I've been watching a lot of 1982 Mid South and Monday Night Raw from 93 to 94 recently and I the 42 minute run time (not included adverts) is such a perfect length for wrestling TV!

[UK Kat Von D]

17 hours ago, Mr Butternut Squash said:

Apparently the Rollins vs Nakamura main event set off the "AEW" "CM PUNK!" chants, which shows that this nauseating 'get yourself over' mentality has more reach than I thought. Fucks sake.  

I don’t understand his idea of fans getting themselves over. They are just an audience amusing themselves because the product isn’t doing it. 

If we look at crowds that “got themselves over” it’s nights like that Chicago crowd for Punk and Cena or that ECW crowd for Cena and RVD. Those crowds were great. If I met a fan who had been there I would actually think that was cool. Chanting the same shit as every other crowd isn’t getting anyone over, or even an attempt at it. It is bored fans who bought their tickets months ago out of habit. If this Singapore show wasn’t even being televised then it should be very clear the crowd were chanting for fun

[Chris B]

57 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

I don’t understand his idea of fans getting themselves over. They are just an audience amusing themselves because the product isn’t doing it. 

If we look at crowds that “got themselves over” it’s nights like that Chicago crowd for Punk and Cena or that ECW crowd for Cena and RVD. Those crowds were great. If I met a fan who had been there I would actually think that was cool. Chanting the same shit as every other crowd isn’t getting anyone over, or even an attempt at it. It is bored fans who bought their tickets months ago out of habit. If this Singapore show wasn’t even being televised then it should be very clear the crowd were chanting for fun

Totally agree. The WWE product has been shit and samey for a long time, and audiences getting restless and bored is a justifiable criticism of the product. The fact that some people have managed to somehow paint this as "the fucking fans are the problem for not accepting it and enjoying it, and just trying to get themselves over, and they're the issue" is just an example of how far in the bubble they are.

Seth Rollins vs Nakamura should be an exciting match-up. But it's not going to matter. And everyone knows it. Because almost nothing in WWE has mattered for years. The overall product is so stale, it takes the excitement out of intriguing match-ups. 

[Your Fight Site]

Someone said it recently (I think @BomberPat) that in modern-day WWE, the audience are just props in a TV show, which is a good observation. It means shows are no longer live events that happen to be recorded and therefore the shows are no longer primarily for the audience’s entertainment. The audience aren’t as invested in the live show nor feel a part of it, which leaves them detached, more self-aware, and more likely to “play up” to amuse themselves or try and derail what’s going on.