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The AEW Wednesday Night Dynamite Thread

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7 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Oh aye, we definitely have not seen the headliner Kenny Omega in AEW. Everyone is suggesting a MJF turn on Cody, but that is too obvious. I would love it to be Kenny and that is what I am hoping this has been leading up to.Remember, AEW was launched without Omega. He only joined in the February when it had been launched on the 1st January. Yes, we know why, but he could definetly play up to that. For his mates to not wait for him to be available etc.

It depends if he has the capability to pull that off.

I have no doubt he can deliver amazing match after amazing match but can he carry a top level American feud and become a big star to a new audience who are not familiar/don't care about his Japan work? I haven't seen it yet. Maybe he can.
 

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One funny thing about the Countdown video was me foolishly assuming that the segment about Japan would be about Riho and Sakura, possibly building upon the whole student/teacher dynamic.

Of course it was about Omega.

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The thing with Omega is he genuinely is one of the best in the world. This is not a case of Heyman hiding Tazz's negatives, this is a case of Kenny being quite self-destructive outside of pre-set parameters and seniors with the balls to say "No". Hell, he was great in DDT, a promotion that actively encourages all kinds of zany shit, and even they had the right kind of restrictions to keep Kenny in the zone.

But with AEW he's just been given this sandbox to play in and it's brought out the worst in him.

I'm not a Melzter band-wagoner nor am I totally against everything he says and writes, but I can tell you that his opinion had nothing to do with Omega's popularity, at least with me. Omega is up there with the best but he's letting his worst attributes (because every wrestler, no matter how great, has their bad points) really come to the forefront. 

Remember that awesome sit down interview he did after he learned that Mox had to pull out of their originally scheduled match? Where's that Kenny? Where was that passion? Where was that story? Where has that been since then? I think that was the last time we saw a version of Kenny Omega that we were excited about, because since then it's been barbed wire brooms, cospay and bitter shots at his ex-employers and ex-colleagues.

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52 minutes ago, Accident Prone said:

The thing with Omega is he genuinely is one of the best in the world.

Depends what criteria that is being based on I suppose.


Great matches? Sure, but Dean Malenko consistently had great matches. Plus, look at who Omega had those great matches with.
Great promo? Everyone says the Moxley one so, okay, but other than that.... ..? I would imagine there is a reason Kenny has not been given/requested live promo time...
Charisma? M'eh... no sorry... not seeing it..... he comes off like a goof....he appeals to the gamers and the nerds but we are not talking Rock or Austin charisma here. He needs something else if he is going to draw in a wider audience, especially in a company with the likes of Jericho and Cody. 
...what else is there?....

Dare I say it but... have we all fallen for the hype and Kenny Omega is maybe actually just not THAT great?.... Maybe? .... 






 

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2 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Dare I say it but... have we all fallen for the hype and Kenny Omega is maybe actually just not THAT great?.... Maybe? .... 

Nah, if he was overhyped then people would have seen through it by now. He's not just some guy that got pushed to the moon over the past 6 months and is suddenly being exposed as a fraud.

Is his self-booking questionable right now? Absolutely, but perhaps by design. They could have easily put him right at the top straight away and made AEW a vanity project for him and Cody etc. I think they're smart by keeping him away from being their top face BUT they're not doing it in a very careful way. He needs to be protected. He needs to be made to look good even if he's not champion or challenging for that title.

The focus is too much on him having fun and doing what he wants, which isn't going to cut it on a TV show where he has to accept that he has an audience to appeal to. It's okay in small doses but AEW now has a weekly TV show to worry about.

Saying that, they do have more than enough time to rehab him to the point where he comes off as the star he should. They have a LOT of viable top tier talent who could be champion and he's just one of them. When the time is right, they can pull the trigger on him being at the top of the company, but they really need to make sure he looks as good as he should even away from the title. He is that good.

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I suppose time will tell.

I think it has told to be honest. He is a superstar in the ring, and that charisma comes off in those big matches. He was consistently entertaining as hell in Japan for a good long while.

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44 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Depends what criteria that is being based on I suppose.


Great matches? Sure, but Dean Malenko consistently had great matches. Plus, look at who Omega had those great matches with.
 

Malenko had GOOD matches, and had he bad matches with people who couldn't keep up with him. Shoot me down in flames here, but Omega's '16 - '18 run was miles better than anything Dean Malenko did in his prime years.

And you can't use New Japan's solid roster as an excuse there. Yeah he had a brilliant series with the likes of Okada and Naito. But he was also able to excel with anybody on the roster. The likes of Yano, Goto, White, fucking hell even scrubs like YOSHI-HASHI. He could fly with the Ibushis, do comedy with the Yanos but also go toe-to-toe in hard bastard contests with the likes of Shibata and Ishii. And he did it all with heart, a sense of determination and a never-say-die attitude that practically shone through the screen. Malekno can't lay claim to those attributes.

And look at Malenko during his prime; who were his best matches with? Eddie, Jericho, Mysterio, the WCW cruiserweights of the mid-90's. Hardly scraping the barrel with that roster. Without mentioning Scotty Too Hotty, show me a good match that Malenko had with someone who was below him in terms of in-ring acumen.

So yeah, the whole "Well so-and-so has good matches too" doesn't do well when the worker being compared doesn't have the same high-level body of work as Omega. Maybe Eddie then? Or Jericho? Maybe then you're looking at a more solid argument. But I'd just say that Omega is right up there with them.

44 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Great promo? Everyone says the Moxley one so, okay, but other than that.... ..? I would imagine there is a reason Kenny has not been given/requested live promo time...

Kenny's mic work worked well for the Japanese audience. Weird phrasing and phonetics, weird choices of words, weird catchphrases too if we're being honest. But it worked. Whilst not the best at delivering live promos, he can still go out there, hit the beats and get a message across without looking like a deer in the headlights. 

For a North American audience, his sit-down interviews have been where he shines. He probably doesn't feel comfortable being handed a live mic, but that's not where he's at his strongest. But the times he has had a live mic? He's shows confidence and a belief in what he is saying, which is enough to get a story going or continue a feud.

44 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Charisma? M'eh... no sorry... not seeing it..... he comes off like a goof....he appeals to the gamers and the nerds but we are not talking Rock or Austin charisma here. He needs something else if he is going to draw in a wider audience, especially in a company with the likes of Jericho and Cody. 
...what else is there?...
 

Well, again, this is all down to how is being presented (or how he is presenting himself) in AEW. There's a reason why he shot to the top of Japan's largest wrestling company, and that's because the fans connected to his natural charisma and inescapable energy. He wasn't cosplaying as game characters save for his big entrances at the annual Wrestle Kingdom shows (which we all just smiled through gritted teeth at).

This geeky persona that he is portraying now wasn't there during his rise to the top in New Japan. In fact, you can trace Kenny Omega's turn in popularity from when he dropped the goofy 'Cleaner' shtick and just became Kenny Omega, leader of the Bullet Club.

49 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Dare I say it but... have we all fallen for the hype and Kenny Omega is maybe actually just not THAT great?.... Maybe? .... 

This is the Kenny Omega everyone adored. The hype was real, trust me.

fcca3fa555c49b31-600x338.jpg.e041b0827f6501677f8d67c17466efc1.jpg

The Kenny Omega we see in AEW? Not the same guy, that's for sure. Certainly not my Kenny Omega.

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What worries me most about Omega is he’s seemingly fixated on Japan and eventually so long after he never meets those standards in AEW he’ll be in deep shit. Look at KENTA for example, or Shinsuke. Kenny is those guys right now and they had moments but never peaked. 
One thing I think he puts way too much credit into his is that bizarre maybe kinda homosexual relationship he has with Ibushi. They’ve mentioned or teased it a few times now but you have to wonder if it ever does happen if it won’t just be the final nail in his coffin. I don’t see how it successfully translates to the AEW audience at all.

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The Ibushi thing is pretty straightforward (by which I just mean not 'bizarre') - they're both very similar, they're both obsessive and they make each other happy. When they're not together, they're both lost in different ways. Last time, Kenny became ruthless and ego-driven, while Kota became aimless, until they finally reunited. This time around, Kota seems to be becoming more driven and ruthless, and Kenny appears to be slowly losing his mind.

Now, the thing is, in NJPW (from what I've seen), they were rarely THAT explicit about the relationship between them. It's a really unusual way to do stories like this. But if you've seen the reunion clip, then you've seen how it can translate to an audience. A lot of it was down to how they reacted around each other, but also by the commentators selling it.

Edited by Chris B

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You just reminded me of one of my favourite Don Callis moments.

*After a tag match in which Cody kissed Ibushi*

Don: Have you (Kevin Kelly) ever been kissed by another man?

Kelly: No.

Don: Why not?

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One thing to consider with Omega is he hasn't done or been part of story driven week to week tv, even with his experience that my take time to get used too, the cameras, short(ish) simple "tv" matches all come with practice and time hence wwe has nxt/pc.

I think he'll settle and get aspects of The Cleaner back, could be a storyline or real life confidence.

Off Topic: but I saw him when I was in Orlando last month, he was shopping at the outlets with a friend, he's got a good look and size in person for what its worth.

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I’ve warmed to the Gino Gambino/Kevin Kelly pairing on commentary in New Japan but nothing beats Don Callis and Kevin Kelly bantering each other for 4 hours on one of those shows.

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Omega has a formula, and that formula is all of his worst aspects at once - mugging, melodrama and repetition of big moves. The matches with Okada were great because Okada's skill is in wrestling his opponent's match, but elevating it into something better. Jericho forced Omega to wrestle Jericho's match. More than almost anyone else I can think of, he needs the right opponent.

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