Jump to content

Darkside of the Ring season 3 discussion


IANdrewDiceClay

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Abe_Knuckleball_Schwartz said:

Although,  not related to the Plane Ride From Hell, on a side note, why the hell would Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty need to date rape people?  Both good looking guys (in the time period in question) and would not be short of attention. 

That’s the kind of argument dodgy celebrities have used for decades to get away with horrendous sexual conduct. ‘Why would I need to do it? I can have any woman I want, it’s a blatant lie’

And that argument has been pretty successful to the point it’s infected attitudes, and made it even harder for men to be held to account. 

I’m not going to analyse specific claims here - but I’ll speak in a general sense. Look at Me Too, and look at Speaking out, and there’s your answer. There’s no ‘typical’ abuser, they can be anyone. Handsome, ugly, rich, poor - anyone (or perhaps ‘any man’ is more accurate).

Unrelated, but is there a more toxic term in wrestling than ‘the boys’? My skin crawls every time I hear it.

Edited by RedRooster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jannetty has told some horrendous stories from the Rockers days in the past on shoots and forums. Him and Shawn picking up women, drugging them and letting a bunch of "the boys" take a turn as well. They would do awful stuff like shave the womens heads and write Slut on their faces whilst they were passed out, to "pop the boys" as well. 

Its hard to know what the actual truth is with him though. As he could just be a complete bullshit artist. He was claiming he killed someone not long ago. It certainly needs looking at though as does Shawn as he claims Shawn was as bad he was. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having watched the video on page 14. Don't you think there was a bit of stunt editing going on? I'm not condoning any of their actions, but from what Dreamer was saying and the narrative doesn't quite match up for me. He sounds like he's recounting experiences of Flair doing his shtick, of which he's been well known to do (it's documented in the 30 for 30 Flair documentary) and then they overlay the stewardess harrassment segment in between. Of course it's going to make Dreamer sound bad by ending his interview segment with "someone must have got offended". 

I've not seen the whole episode so if someone could let me know if it was clear that he was talking about that particular journey? If so, it makes him sound like he's blaming the stewardess for not being in on the joke and not allowing Flair to sexually harass her, or is it likely he was just speaking of previous encounters and they added it for a gotcha! moment? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing with Jannetty and his stories, especially the one on the plane with the students who they drugged and shaved their heads. Its just, hang on, it's not a chartered jet. Literally other members of the public there (in Jannetty's stories), surely everyone who wasn't a wrestler on that flight would be like 'WHAT THE ABSOLUTE FUCK!' Surely a story as mad as Jannetty's would have made it somewhere that could be validated. Even a local article. I honestly think most of his stories are utter fantasist nonsense from a really sad addict with no friends. Has anyone verified them ever? 

*Not on his side or saying he didn't. Be he talks soooo much shit I never know if it's made up. 

Edited by Chili
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Abe_Knuckleball_Schwartz said:

Although,  not related to the Plane Ride From Hell, on a side note, why the hell would Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty need to date rape people?  Both good looking guys (in the time period in question) and would not be short of attention. 

Guess it boils down to getting a kick out of the power and the "because they can attitude" either way, it is a Psychologists dream.

It’s fascinating isn’t it? Being surrounded by ‘mat rats’ desperate for your attention that at some point that’s not enough and maybe becomes the need to degrade them too. 

Even Jake (not quite a heartbreaker)  spoke way back in Beyond the Mat about having endless women willing to fill his bed, day in day out….’ 2 a day. 2 a day with toys’.

I’ll out myself by stating that I am a female- so have even less understanding of what might specifically drive a man to abuse a woman, but I do remember reading a (surely heavily santised) biography of a 90s pop star. He knew he could f any fan- without even chatting to her for 2 minutes. They’d be fighting each other  to be the one who got to go up to his room.  It became boring, he said.  
 

Totally  agree though that some of Janettys stories from what happening in public in commercial flights seem hard to swallow.  Don’t know if anyone has seen the Beefcake clip from 89 where he’s recounting on the antics of the Rockers with glee, the interviewers chuckling and nodding but it made me sick to my stomach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members
8 hours ago, 5pints said:

Having watched the video on page 14. Don't you think there was a bit of stunt editing going on? I'm not condoning any of their actions, but from what Dreamer was saying and the narrative doesn't quite match up for me. He sounds like he's recounting experiences of Flair doing his shtick, of which he's been well known to do (it's documented in the 30 for 30 Flair documentary) and then they overlay the stewardess harrassment segment in between. Of course it's going to make Dreamer sound bad by ending his interview segment with "someone must have got offended". 

I've not seen the whole episode so if someone could let me know if it was clear that he was talking about that particular journey? If so, it makes him sound like he's blaming the stewardess for not being in on the joke and not allowing Flair to sexually harass her, or is it likely he was just speaking of previous encounters and they added it for a gotcha! moment? 

I only saw it once but I think Dreamer's initial take is that Flair wandered up the plane with his knob out making the boys laugh, and he believes the air hostess got offended by a harmless joke. 

The air stewardess' account is that Flair confronted her at the back of the plane after doing so and tryed to force her into touching it. 

I think Tommy addresses the hostess' claims at the end by saying he'd never seen Flair force himself onto a woman. 

edit* forgot to add that Dreamer also says something about the women accepting a payoff rather than pushing for criminal charges. I dont know if this was in direct reference to the sexual assuault, or the trip in general though. Can anyone clarify?

 

 

Edited by Egg Shen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members
1 hour ago, Egg Shen said:

 

edit* forgot to add that Dreamer also says something about the women accepting a payoff rather than pushing for criminal charges. I dont know if this was in direct reference to the sexual assuault, or the trip in general though. Can anyone clarify?

 

 

Because he goes on about how Flair would never sexually assault someone, my belief is it was the sexual assault claim, not just the flight in general 

Edited by Hannibal Scorch
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is depressing that the first thought many have is "it must have been bad editing!" or "they're famous so they don't need to do this". Arguments we've seen for so many years. I get it. It's not easy to believe someone you've probably liked or enjoyed for years ends up being a proper scumbag. That's not what anyone wants. But sometimes things are far bigger than you losing your idol.

The worst comments are from people that think they "know" a famous person based on what they see on TV or in interviews or those few seconds they got at a convention. Really? I'm so surprised they don't just sit there and talk about how they like to rape women or something. Weird that.

It's part of the problem. So many famous people know they have that power and that grip on fans. They get caught up in thinking they can do whatever they want and they feel entitled to do so but it shows just how much they look down on others. It's disgusting really. Thankfully not everyone out there is like it but the automatic reflex of defending needs to stop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

It is depressing that the first thought many have is "it must have been bad editing!" or "they're famous so they don't need to do this". Arguments we've seen for so many years. I get it. It's not easy to believe someone you've probably liked or enjoyed for years ends up being a proper scumbag. That's not what anyone wants. But sometimes things are far bigger than you losing your idol.

The worst comments are from people that think they "know" a famous person based on what they see on TV or in interviews or those few seconds they got at a convention. Really? I'm so surprised they don't just sit there and talk about how they like to rape women or something. Weird that.

It's part of the problem. So many famous people know they have that power and that grip on fans. They get caught up in thinking they can do whatever they want and they feel entitled to do so but it shows just how much they look down on others. It's disgusting really. Thankfully not everyone out there is like it but the automatic reflex of defending needs to stop.

I think how much Cristiano Ronaldo has gotten away with it sums it up. Even his account of what happened has the woman telling him to stop and how he just apologised afterwards.

He scores goals for someones favourite football team so it’s alright though, eh?

Wrestling is much the same where people don’t want to face their favourite being a scumbag. There are still people who believe Chris Benoit is entitled to go into the HOF based on his wrestling skills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members
1 hour ago, FUM said:

There are still people who believe Chris Benoit is entitled to go into the HOF based on his wrestling skills.

And more than that, that he never did the murders at all, that he was framed, that the fucking Taskmaster did it out of revenge (probably with the help of the Dungeon Of Doom) and everyone’s blind to the truth. All because he threw a mean snap suplex or something. If it was Gene Snitsky in exactly the same situation I doubt he’d have so many defenders somehow. Or any.

I haven’t seen anything of this series yet been meaning to catch up on it. This latest episode sounds like a rough watch though. And while that particular plane ride sounds especially fucked up, there must be countless stories that are similar from over the years that just haven’t seen the light of day for whatever reason. Especially in that late 80s/early 90s period with the mad travel schedule and most of them coked up, drunk and pain pilled off their heads a lot of the time. I don’t envy those air hostesses working those flights and what they must’ve had to put up with. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members
15 hours ago, RedRooster said:

That’s the kind of argument dodgy celebrities have used for decades to get away with horrendous sexual conduct. ‘Why would I need to do it? I can have any woman I want, it’s a blatant lie’

I think there's a point where that sense of "why would they need to?" from good looking celebrities is a cause of their behaviour, not an argument against it. If you've been led to believe that every woman you meet is going to throw themselves at you, it's probably a lot easier to convince yourself that the woman who's saying "no" doesn't really mean it. Or else you become so entitled and used to having your own way that you can't even process anything other than that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...