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Covid-19 Megathread


Loki

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Making out that the economy is reliant on the taxes on wages of those earning some of the least is just silly. We don't get the economy moving by the wages of bar staff being forced to work, and it's silly to pretend otherwise. If it were the case, businesses wouldn't have spent the last two decades doing everything they can to rush towards automation.

We're doing this because the profit in the industry is the important thing. Because the enormously wealthy are worrying that the power dynamic is shifting. What we've seen is that the 'wealth creators' aren't really the ones we need most, despite hearing about this for so long (and despite Johnson's 'clap for the bankers' bullshit). They prey off the lower-paid workers, and if they can't do their job, the whole thing breaks down. And we're already past that tipping point. Trying to go backwards would be like trying to push water.

So, while I agree that the mega-wealthy are in far too much control of government, and won't give this position up lightly, what we're seeing now is the consequence of their control, and the misplaced belief in this modern take on corporate capitalism. It's unsustainable and needs to change.And it will change because of the lack of jobs. This is not a question of 'life doesn't work that way'. We're seeing the consequences of this parasitical approach to society, and life is not working like this either.

It doesn't just need to change. It's going to change. That's unavoidable. The only question is whether it does so smoothly or horrendously. The more we fetishise the status quo, the less smoothly it'll go.

A national living wage isn't a totally unrealistic idea. In fact, it's looking more and more like it's necessary. 

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20 hours ago, Uncle Zeb said:

Same risk, different reward.

I think we all, to varying degrees, have felt uncomfortable about the BLM protests coinciding with a pandemic - but we get it. We understand the compulsion to strike while the iron's hot, in the hope of turning this uniquely widespread strength of feeling into unprecedented results.

The "need" to abandon all social responsibility for the sake of a pint is so far from being the same thing, that to accuse people of hypocrisy for not dishing out equal criticism requires either a special kind of intellectual dishonesty, or just being a genuine twat.

Not quite sure that would be of much consolation to any elderly or immunocompromised people who ended up dying because of it. 

"I know you won't get to see your grandkids grow up, mum, but it was for a good cause. At least you're not dying because some pillock wanted a pint!"

Risk versus reward and all that.

18 hours ago, Chris B said:

Making out that the economy is reliant on the taxes on wages of those earning some of the least is just silly. We don't get the economy moving by the wages of bar staff being forced to work, and it's silly to pretend otherwise. If it were the case, businesses wouldn't have spent the last two decades doing everything they can to rush towards automation.

We're doing this because the profit in the industry is the important thing. Because the enormously wealthy are worrying that the power dynamic is shifting. What we've seen is that the 'wealth creators' aren't really the ones we need most, despite hearing about this for so long (and despite Johnson's 'clap for the bankers' bullshit). They prey off the lower-paid workers, and if they can't do their job, the whole thing breaks down. And we're already past that tipping point. Trying to go backwards would be like trying to push water.

So, while I agree that the mega-wealthy are in far too much control of government, and won't give this position up lightly, what we're seeing now is the consequence of their control, and the misplaced belief in this modern take on corporate capitalism. It's unsustainable and needs to change.And it will change because of the lack of jobs. This is not a question of 'life doesn't work that way'. We're seeing the consequences of this parasitical approach to society, and life is not working like this either.

It doesn't just need to change. It's going to change. That's unavoidable. The only question is whether it does so smoothly or horrendously. The more we fetishise the status quo, the less smoothly it'll go.

A national living wage isn't a totally unrealistic idea. In fact, it's looking more and more like it's necessary. 

I never said the economy was entirely reliant on average workers taxes, I said there's going to have to be some sort of recovery implemented, and that's going to require people being back at work and paying taxes.

People of all backgrounds and in all professions, be it lawyers, bartenders, cleaners, and even bankers. It'll also need people back on the street and spending money in places like pubs.

You said we should be targeting the wealth hoarders and taxing them more, and I said that wouldn't work. No one who would even consider that line of action is getting close enough to the level of power required to do that. It just won't happen. 

And the enormously wealthy aren't worried about fuck all. You don't get to that position by worrying about the plebs smashing some windows, tearing down some statues and marching in the streets. People at that level couldn't give a toss about statues or history. They sit back and let the lower classes fight with each other over who was most racist and who's a patriot. That's how it's always gone.

The enormously wealthy are more worried about how quickly they can have the new al fresco area on their Blohm & Voss super yacht completed than they are anything you or me is capable of.

Of course business owners rely on lower paid workers, but those lower paid workers rely on those jobs even more. The super wealthy and even business owners such as your chap who owns Wetherspoons isn't going hungry any time soon. The lower paid workers are only ever a month or so away from losing their house.

It's simple supply and demand. Especially at this point, there's going to be more people willing to work in the pubs for low wages than there's ever been, because ideals and trying to change the world quickly goes out the window when there's a mortgage to be paid and children to feed.

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My grandad had a letter saying he is no longer shielded. He was playing golf still when he was supposed to be at home. Has now started car sharing to go to golf and is talking about going to the pub with his mate. I cannot understand the logic at all. 

He was quite rightly shit scared when he was put into lockdown and thought he would never see the grand and great grandkids again. Now the mad old git is wanting to go to the bastard pub. My gran is much the same though, she should have had a shielding letter due to a defib and pace maker but somehow slipped through the gaps, she has been out shopping with my mother who is also being a tool about this all.

I shouldn't be surprised really, my mother voted Tory as she believes everything she hears on the TV, despite the fact she works in a school in a proper shit hole. The fucking idiocy of them baffles me. 

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55 minutes ago, David said:

Not quite sure that would be of much consolation to any elderly or immunocompromised people who ended up dying because of it.

I'm guessing their complaints wouldn't be described as "getting all indignant" by you, whether they had the same to say about #SuperSaturday or not.

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So Johnson has blamed Care home bosses for the 20-odd thousand care home deaths from Covid. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-coronavirus-care-home-death-toll-uk-update-a9604426.html

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1 hour ago, WyattSheepMask said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/10/uk-has-opted-out-of-eu-coronavirus-vaccine-programme-sources-say

So in the latest effort to stick it Brussels, we’ve opted out of the Coronavirus Vaccine Program because the benefits, including such things as “not dying”, are considered to be “limited”

Did you even bother reading the reasons or was it just a desperate scramble to be the first to share this in as many places as you could with a 'witty' comment?

Edited by Chest Rockwell
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Opting out of the EU scheme seems like unnecessarily forcing all your eggs into one basket. AstraZeneca might be into second stage testing, but they're focussed on only one vaccine out of 130, and admit that, like many vaccines, it may only immunise for up to a year. Turning away another option being developed by other parties, citing dose limits and possible distribution delays, strikes me as ego or political posturing. And this is while being eligible DESPITE being on the way out of the EU. "We can't have whatever we demand and we might need to wait while other committed countries get first dibs? FUCK YOU ALL!"

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8 hours ago, johnnyboy said:

If you get your macho peas and bottomless Diet Coke free would you mind forgetting the 60,000 dead?

There are 5 Monday’s in August so that’s a lot of discount to use. I think I can console myself in my creamy mash that 60000 died for me to get it half price. Winners and losers. 

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So how bad an idea would it be to go to Paris next week?

My work are pretty determined for their staff to get it (during lockdown we were told to volunteer, or not get paid, to work in a call centre where we were put far away from the windows for no reason, were exchanging bits of paper, didn't see a cleaner, weren't given masks and there were 20 of us each day being mixed with different people). I'm currently of the opinion that it'd be better to get it in Paris than working.

So far they don't seem to have lifted the voluntary quarantine. 

Not that it's an excuse for considering it, but my mental health has been entirely fucked and I'm desperate to get away somewhere. I love Paris.

The other option is I go fossil hunting on the Jurassic Coast. 

Edited by Vamp
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