Paid Members Chris B Posted August 11, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, BomberPat said: WWE "legends" from that point onward were destined to either be booked as if they were just as good as they were in their prime - contrast to guys like Backlund and Jake in the '90s, where "have they still got what it takes?" was a real element of their character - or reduced to one-note caricatures who are all best mates, and will dance around backstage in gear they haven't worn for thirty years, then Ron Simmons pulls a face. Ricky Steamboat showing up in backstage segments in his sodding karate gi. One way or another, they started booking to their history, rather than their present - the top stars of today are never as important as someone who main evented in 1998, and never will be. That's part of what was so refreshing about that Jake Roberts debut promo in AEW. He wasn't out there doing what he's always done - he was out there with new motivations, new plans and a new wrestler to build up. Sure, he's brought back the snake (hopefully as a one-off), but otherwise, this was a new and vaguely relevant Jake Roberts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted August 11, 2020 Awards Moderator Share Posted August 11, 2020 To add to the idea of things feeling like they move far more slowly these days, making each year indistinguishable - The Fiend has been around for a year now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) Ric Flair deserves to be looked at by wrestling fans in the same way as Hulk Hogan is now. There are multiple accounts of him exposing himself to women and it’s kind of treated as a ‘haha’ story or not that big a deal by those telling it. I realise I’m preaching to the choir here but clearly, this isn’t a ‘haha’ story, it’s quite literally a sex crime. I’ve only learned about these allegations recently, and it’s turned Flair from one of my all-time favourites into a symbol for the culture in wrestling that led to the Speaking Out movement. His significant contribution to the wrestling industry, in my opinion, should be recognised without being celebrated. Possibly a bit too serious for this thread, possibly even merits a thread of its own, but the idea of a second thread on how fucking disgusting wrestling can be depresses me. Edited August 11, 2020 by RedRooster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTXRussomark Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 47 minutes ago, RedRooster said: I’ve only learned about these allegations recently How?? I can't even begin to count the number of different places I've heard/read stories of Flair's behaviour, dating back at least 15/20 years. I agree with your general point though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted August 11, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted August 11, 2020 8 hours ago, LaGoosh said: Agree completely. I think this match and the HBK/Undertaker matches were probably the worst thing to happen to WWE long term for me. It made the company focus on nostalgia and forced moments, and turned the match style into endless forced finisher spamming "epics". I don’t think this is a fair comparison. Michaels and The Undertaker at the times of their two matches were still viable main eventers on merit, not coasting on reputation, and delivered two matches that delivered as matches, compared to Rock/Hogan which was 80% atmosphere 20% novelty and featured Hogan positioned as the equal of one of the company’s biggest guns after their own rhetoric had declared him past it for over 5 years. I will say that the finisher thing however is true. In the second match Michaels coming back to score near falls after receiving a Tombstone on the floor was ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, CTXRussomark said: How?? I can't even begin to count the number of different places I've heard/read stories of Flair's behaviour, dating back at least 15/20 years. I agree with your general point though. I started watching wrestling in late 2002 when I was 15. My early wrestling diet consisted of wrestlinginc.com and opinion pieces on Pwtorch.com, none of which mentioned Flair’s extra curricular activities. I’m not sure when I became aware of his womanising, but there’s every chance I dismissed it as gimmickry and bullshit early on. I didn’t know about his tendency to expose himself until this year though. through Jim Ross’s first book and a Conrad Thomson podcast. I forget which one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted August 11, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, air_raid said: I don’t think this is a fair comparison. Michaels and The Undertaker at the times of their two matches were still viable main eventers on merit, not coasting on reputation, and delivered two matches that delivered as matches, compared to Rock/Hogan which was 80% atmosphere 20% novelty and featured Hogan positioned as the equal of one of the company’s biggest guns after their own rhetoric had declared him past it for over 5 years. I will say that the finisher thing however is true. In the second match Michaels coming back to score near falls after receiving a Tombstone on the floor was ridiculous. I don't think the HBK/Undertaker match was a finisher spamming forced nostalgia epic. It's a great match with a fantastic story leading into it. I do think though that the high praise and success of those matches definitely influenced how WWE did things going forwards though with endless forced attempts to create similar epic matches and moments with little to no success and at massive damage to the product, completely missing everything that made those original two matches so special. Edited August 11, 2020 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannibal Man Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 36 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I don't think the HBK/Undertaker match was a finisher spamming forced nostalgia epic. It's a great match with a fantastic story leading into it. I do think though that the high praise and success of those matches definitely influenced how WWE did things going forwards though with endless forced attempts to create similar epic matches and moments with little to no success and at massive damage to the product, completely missing everything that made those original two matches so special. That's standard WWE since about 2006. Something works better than planned, have a go of it's arse til it doesn't resemble itself any more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Jim Bob Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 5 hours ago, RedRooster said: Ric Flair deserves to be looked at by wrestling fans in the same way as Hulk Hogan is now. There are multiple accounts of him exposing himself to women and it’s kind of treated as a ‘haha’ story or not that big a deal by those telling it. I realise I’m preaching to the choir here but clearly, this isn’t a ‘haha’ story, it’s quite literally a sex crime. I’ve only learned about these allegations recently, and it’s turned Flair from one of my all-time favourites into a symbol for the culture in wrestling that led to the Speaking Out movement. His significant contribution to the wrestling industry, in my opinion, should be recognised without being celebrated. Possibly a bit too serious for this thread, possibly even merits a thread of its own, but the idea of a second thread on how fucking disgusting wrestling can be depresses me.  I'm just as amazed Jerry Lawler has not been metoo'd yet. If even a 10th of the stories about him are true. Fucking hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King of Old School Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 16 hours ago, HarmonicGenerator said: To add to the idea of things feeling like they move far more slowly these days, making each year indistinguishable - The Fiend has been around for a year now. Feels like a lot longer to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted August 25, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) What the fuck is the appeal of Darby Allin? Scrawny little Dynamic Dudes rip off with a finisher where he usually ends up bouncing off an opponent. Edited August 25, 2021 by garynysmon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merzbow Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 This is where I'd normally go through all the positives but fuck him tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted August 25, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, garynysmon said: What the fuck is the appeal of Darby Allin? Scrawny little Dynamic Dudes rip off with a finisher where he usually ends up bouncing off an opponent. - has consistently great matches, hasn't had a match anything less than good in about a year. - wrestles a unique style which makes both him and his matches stand out. - matches have great psychology that perfectly fit his size, style and character and his opponent. - makes his opponents look great, even in defeat. - bumps like a fucking lunatic. Frequently comes up with really creative and inventive spots. - his look and character is different from everything else at the moment. Constantly making small changes and additions to keep things fresh. - has the goth/punk/daredevil thing going on which is always popular with a lot of fans. - hangs around with Sting. That's the appeal. Edited August 25, 2021 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 1 hour ago, garynysmon said: What the fuck is the appeal of Darby Allin? Scrawny little Dynamic Dudes rip off with a finisher where he usually ends up bouncing off an opponent. Yeah, because they’re totally the fucking same arn’t they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted August 25, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted August 25, 2021 I don't think "man who comes across as genuinely part of modern skate culture which informs his daredevil approach to pro wrestling" is really a rip-off of "two men in backwards neon baseball caps carrying a board they've clearly never stood on." You might as well say Shibata is a Kama rip-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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