Standup Comedy

[gmoney]

He's not very funny, no. 

Being slightly on the left doesn't make you funny. See 90% of all stand up comedians. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by gmoney

[Factotum]

1 minute ago, gmoney said:

He's not very funny, no. 

Being slightly on the left doesn't make you funny. See 90% of all stand up comedians. 

I was being slightly facetious, but it always puzzles me how he seems to get away with it now because he started tweeting political stuff. This is a guy who mocked a disabled child on TV of course.

[Dead Mike]

1 minute ago, gmoney said:

I think Doug's a great stand up, still. Even if he is a mess. I've never once seen a Stanhope set an thought "there is a man punching down."  Same for Jerry Sadowitz

Both Stanhope & Sadowitz are deliberately offensive for pure shock value. The victim of the joke being the audiences sensibilities. I've seen Stanhope say some horrendous stuff but its blatantly clear he doesn't mean it. Not everything has to be whimsy.

That said, those acts certainly aren't for everyone, Sadowitz isn't for me at all but if other people dig his stuff then fair enough. He's good at what he does and I'm genuinely surprised at the length of career he's got out of it.

[stumobir]

9 minutes ago, Factotum said:

Is Frankie Boyle OK now because he said some left wing things?

I don’t find Boyle particularly funny but I wouldn’t say he’s ever been in the same category as others at punching down to minorities, rape victims etc. 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by stumobir

[Factotum]

11 minutes ago, stumobir said:

I don’t find Boyle particularly funny but I wouldn’t say he’s ever been in the same category as others at punching down to minorities, rape victims etc

I would take a look into his past. There's a lot of extremely contentious stuff, including mocking disabilities and women. I think Stewart Lee called him 'Mock The Weak' which always made me chuckle.

Anyway, its beside the point really. Been interesting to read people's comments on this. A rather better, more nuanced discussion on offense and comedy than you get in a Times article.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Factotum

[Cousin Jim Bob]

 

Here is Frankie ripping into Harvey Price. Who was 8 years old at the time.

 

Boyle has a long history of punching down.

[d-d-d-dAz]

Frankie Boyle’s problem was Mock The Week. It boilt him down to horrible one liners, and then his standup followed the same way. By the time he tried to be a better stand up, the ship had sailed and right minded people weren’t interested.

I don’t think it was ever his intention to be awful for the sake of being awful, but for a brief time where he accepted quick money for cheap gags he basically derailed his career.

The way to do it - to use the Doug Stanhope analogy - is to create entire narrative arcs where you the comedian are the lowest of the low, the bottom of the barrel and you are aimlessly flailing up from a position of weakness and patheticness.

Stanhope did it in such a way where he oftentimes found himself on the side of maligned communities, whilst utterly brutally picking apart the lives of middle class white people (even if that included unacceptable language or potentially even minority communities getting caught in the crossfire.)
 

That ultimately might still not be for you, but it’s at least a fleshed out routine/act where the comedian is to be pitied. It’s a million times better than ‘so, heard of irony yeah? Great! What about those disabled n-words hey?’

I’m not a Stanhope fan but at least he makes (made?) the fucking effort. Lazy twats.

Edited May 25, 2022 by d-d-d-dAz

[stumobir]

Yeah, I’m not here to defend him, there’s no doubt some of his material is awful, particularly the older stuff. It’s why I said I don’t find him that funny.  I’d still say it wasn’t central to his gimmick unlike the other two that are mainly being discussed, not that that excuses him from the shitty things he has said. You could find material from almost any comedian that would be in poor taste, the issue lies when that becomes the act, like it has with Carr and Gervais.

Edited May 25, 2022 by stumobir

[BomberPat]

Frankie Boyle is a fascinating guy when writing/talking about comedy, and I probably prefer him doing that to his actual stand-up - though he's been pretty spot-on about Gervais, and some of the stuff on New World Order has been good in a kind of "getting things under the radar on the BBC" way; one of his discussion points being "like every other panel show on TV, let's discuss Guy Debord's Theory Of The Spectacle" really tickled me, but probably isn't going to pass muster as mass market comedy.

I don't know if he's ever actually directly apologised for his earlier work, but it's clear that he's moved on significantly as a person and as a comic performer since those days, and that's really all we can ask for, some sense of self-examination, reflection, and accountability. Lots of people said stupid shit when they were younger. I used to really dislike Frankie Boyle on Mock The Week, because there was a point when being "offensive" clearly became the aim above and beyond constructing actual jokes. 

Doug Stanhope - though I haven't listened to/watched him in years - had some of the most overtly offensive material I've ever heard, but in terms of the topics he discussed and the language he used, but it never felt like he was bullying someone. He got the closest to what people think Bill Hicks was all about, whereas most comedians who idolised Bill Hicks just seem to reach the conclusion that comedy is so kind of holy, untouchable art form that gives me permission to say whatever they like and be free from criticism for it. 

[Jazzy G]

35 minutes ago, Factotum said:

I was being slightly facetious, but it always puzzles me how he seems to get away with it now because he started tweeting political stuff. This is a guy who mocked a disabled child on TV of course.

He's said some disgusting things, and I have a feeling it was done to get him noticed, and get eyes in the shows he was on, which is in no way me condoning those jokes. It always feels like he's going for an "I shouldn't be laughing at this because it's disgusting" or "I can't believe he said that" rather than just outright mocking the afflicted. Some of it does land WAY off mark, such as the Katie Price/Harvey one. He at least portrays himself on TV and twitter in the same way, and doesn't try to hide behind "irony" 

[Mr_Danger]

Good comedy, no matter what the subject matter will stand up to scrutiny and it should be scrutinised. Let them say whatever they like short of hate speech and let the court of public opinion decide if it’s acceptable and if it’s found to be acceptable and a group of people want to challenge that acceptability let them. It’s a great way to filter out the cunts.

It’s also ok for cunts to stop being cunts and start being sound, as long as they own the fact that they were once cunts. I’m not sure if Boyle has ever owned that fact but he’s a lot more palatable these days when I’ve heard him on podcasts.

[cobra_gordo]

I did use to like Frankie Boyle on Mock The Week but after seeing him live I realised it was because his outrageous material was balanced out by the other comedians. When I went to see him in (I think) 2010 it was an hour and a bit of nothing but rape and downs syndrome jokes, one after another, badly paced and dull as fuck. It was relentless, bitterly disappointing and led to the worlds most awkward drive home with my Mrs who hated every second of his set. The only saving grace was Craig Campbell who opened and blew Boyle out of the water.

[Chris B]

56 minutes ago, cobra_gordo said:

The only saving grace was Craig Campbell who opened and blew Boyle out of the water.

Sadly, Campbell went full tin-hat 'free speech', anti-BLM, anti-me-too anti-vax holocaust-denying weirdo. These are just the posts I can still find - there were a lot of others.

 

Genuinely a shame, because he was a fantastic comedian, but he became an absolutely foul online presence. Appears to have deleted or been suspended from pretty much everywhere and even GB News don't appear to want to book him.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Chris B

[Keith Houchen]

21 minutes ago, cobra_gordo said:

I did use to like Frankie Boyle on Mock The Week but after seeing him live I realised it was because his outrageous material was balanced out by the other comedians. When I went to see him in (I think) 2010 it was an hour and a bit of nothing but rape and downs syndrome jokes, one after another, badly paced and dull as fuck. It was relentless, bitterly disappointing and led to the worlds most awkward drive home with my Mrs who hated every second of his set. The only saving grace was Craig Campbell who opened and blew Boyle out of the water.

Yeah I always thought of Boyle as a joke teller as opposed to a stand up comedian if that makes sense. There wasn’t a thread in anything I’d seen, just jokes which could’ve been told in any order and the show wouldn’t have suffered or benefitted. 

[dopper]

I saw Stewart Lee's Tornado/Snowflake show over a week ago.

At the interval my mate and I came out from 'Tornado' on a high thinking it had been an excellent hour, and while 'Snowflake' was also good we left after that second hour a bit deflated because we both thought it was the weaker of the two.

 

This morning I listened to a Marc Maron's podcast where he was explaining his latest set to Michael Che, saying it's a decent 90 minutes but he's unsure whether he wants to keep working on improving the full thing or get a support act to open for him and turn what he already has into an excellent 60 minute set instead.

I think I would have enjoyed a shorter version of Tornado/Snowflake more than the full 2 hour version. 

Edited May 30, 2022 by dopper