Keith Houchen Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Even Chubby Brown got pissed off with his audience going yampy for his “Not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims” bit and how they weren’t there for his skilfully crafted wordplay. Was it Stewart Lee who said how Al Murray and Jimmy Carrs satire wasn’t good if it was being stolen by Jim Davidson because he liked the jokes? Im not a comedian, well maybe a failed one, but I know how Gervais has never worked a crowd that wasn’t 100% on his side. He doesn’t have to workshop or tryout material because his audience will lap it up regardless. It’s quite an enviable position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted May 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted May 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dead Mike said: By 'didn't work' I meant 'didn't get the desired reaction'. If Herring/Murray or whoever choose to keep a joke that's been misinterpreted I'd lean towards thinking its because they know that everyone whose opinion they care about knows they're not a bigot. Rather than choosing to 'cash in' off racists. To go back to Steve Albini, here's his thread on Gervais; The key point in this regard; Quote - The premise to all this is, "it's funny 'cause it's *me*. I'm not really like that, so *me* doing it is actually a critique of it, and you reacting to it is part of *me* being the funny part because you wouldn't react to *me* that way otherwise. Get it? At some point, "it's me saying it, right?" becomes indistinguishable from anyone else saying it. The ironic persona becomes more and more the real thing, because it's getting reactions, and if all you crave is a reaction, that's enough. In Herring and Murray's case, Herring did an entire stand-up set (the aforementioned Hitler Moustache) engaging with the notion of offense, meaning and intent in comedy. Al Murray, for a time, sort of shelved the Pub Landlord character and did more out of character TV work to make the distinction between himself and the character. These are reasonable, and perhaps even laudable, reactions to seeing your work co-opted by the very people you were attempting to make fun of. Ricky Gervais is just constantly wanting to have his cake and eat it too. In his TV work, he writes bigotry into the mouths of other characters so that he can get the thrill of getting away with it, while having his own character say, "bit racist, yeah?" and make a face to absolve him of guilt, and in his stand-up he hides behind "it's just a joke" or his lazy framing of "irony" to get away with saying things that it's pretty clear he unironically believes anyway, and which don't pass the "explain why it's funny" test I outlined earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted May 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted May 25, 2022 19 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Im not a comedian, well maybe a failed one, but I know how Gervais has never worked a crowd that wasn’t 100% on his side. He doesn’t have to workshop or tryout material because his audience will lap it up regardless. It’s quite an enviable position. That's not quite true, he did some Edinburgh shows in character as the character Derek, in 2001, which was only just after the Office was shown. Willing to bet the material wasn't quite as "heart-warming" as the show tried to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, gmoney said: That's not quite true, he did some Edinburgh shows in character as the character Derek, in 2001, which was only just after the Office was shown. Willing to bet the material wasn't quite as "heart-warming" as the show tried to be. He rewrote the whole show didn’t he? Focus groups were aghast that a mentally challenged man was the butt of all the jokes and they didn’t find it funny at all. So he added piano music. Shandling knew. You can see Ricky’s heart break in real time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanky316 Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 23 minutes ago, BomberPat said: In Herring and Murray's case, Herring did an entire stand-up set (the aforementioned Hitler Moustache) engaging with the notion of offense, meaning and intent in comedy. Al Murray, for a time, sort of shelved the Pub Landlord character and did more out of character TV work to make the distinction between himself and the character. These are reasonable, and perhaps even laudable, reactions to seeing your work co-opted by the very people you were attempting to make fun of. I've got to be honest, when I first came across Al Murray I was massively put off. I only really saw adverts and the big boorish bloke with a pint, and Union flags behind him led to me putting him in that "Christmas DVD" category alongside Davidson and Brown who "tell it like it is". It wasn't until that spell where the character was shelved and saw more of him I "got" the act and realised it's not meant to be perceived in that category and was just a character. It doesn't surprise me that it attracted "the wrong type" of audience in parts and I gained a lot of respect for that decision. It'd have been easy to say "well they're paying me good money and it's a living, besides lots of people get the joke" so dropping it and highlighting the issue as to why he began to feel uncomfortable was something I respected. None of this hiding behind the character bollocks, actually highlighting why it was problematic and the issues around it was a refreshing change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted May 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) On 5/24/2022 at 10:46 AM, Kfogg1991 said: I absolutely love offensive stand up comedy "Offensive" comedy is just absolutely dog shit terrible lazy comedy. Sorry. Being offensive alone is not clever or funny. Edited May 25, 2022 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironic Indie Lad Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 "I absolutely love offensive stand up comedy" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted May 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted May 25, 2022 Any comedian who sets out to be deliberately offensive is absolutely always fucking shit. Even more so the ones like Jimmy Carr and Anthony Jeselnik who are all like "Ooh this one will get me kicked out of Neighbourhood Watch!" before they tell one. What happened to just trying to be funny? It's worked pretty well for many, many people who never had to upset a group of people in being so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted May 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) When you consider how comedians have essentially every thing and facet of anything that has ever existed or happened in the history or future of the universe to write jokes about the fact that so many of them keep making jokes about rape, trans, AIDS, etc. just shows how fucking boring they are. Edited May 25, 2022 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Doug Stanhope was one who I thought got close to nailing the form. But even that got massively tiresome. He became his character and it was just a bit shit. The ones like Carr and Gervais, who use ‘irony’ as their own personal ‘I can’t be racist, I’ve got a black mate’ get-out clause are the absolute dirt worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members stumobir Posted May 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted May 25, 2022 Went to see Stewart Lee’s Tornado/Snowflake a few weeks ago and he had Carr and Gervais in his crosshairs for exactly the sort of stuff you’re talking about. His whole bit on Gervais trying to say the unsayable had he creased. These schmucks couldn’t lace his boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: When you consider how comedians have essentially every thing and facet of anything that has ever existed or happened in the history or future of the universe to write jokes about the fact that so many of them keep making jokes about rape, trans, AIDS, etc. just shows how fucking boring they are. Absolutely this. It's one of the most free form art forms in the world, and you can talk about, as you said, anything to have ever existed in the world, and you choose to belittle groups of people to get a cheap pop. Proper sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, LaGoosh said: "Offensive" comedy is just absolutely dog shit terrible lazy comedy. Sorry. Being offensive alone is not clever or funny. You’re replying to someone who gets offended and wets his girly knickers about being a karaoke singer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted May 25, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted May 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said: Doug Stanhope was one who I thought got close to nailing the form. But even that got massively tiresome. He became his character and it was just a bit shit. I think Doug's a great stand up, still. Even if he is a mess. I've never once seen a Stanhope set an thought "there is a man punching down." Same for Jerry Sadowitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) Is Frankie Boyle OK now because he said some left wing things? Edited May 25, 2022 by Factotum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.