Paid Members tiger_rick Posted March 12 Paid Members Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, Loki said: Come now. We can discuss these things without resorting to hyperbolic comments like this surely. I think it's similar wishful thinking, personally. Feel free to argue the points made if you disagree. But I don't think it's hyperbole at all. We all know how opinions are shaped by people's opinions of certain personalities in wrestling. Was ever thus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Loki said: Stephanie though - the circumstances of her leaving the WWE, in and around McMahon's original ouster and return.. there's a real story there to be heard, assuming any of this gets to court. Could that not be "found out and wanted nothing more to do with him/company etc" though? Not defending Stephanie, as only she knows what she does or doesn't know, but doesn't the time line of all this add up to that being a possibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted March 12 Paid Members Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, SuperBacon said: Could that not be "found out and wanted nothing more to do with him/company etc" though? Not defending Stephanie, as only she knows what she does or doesn't know, but doesn't the time line of all this add up to that being a possibility? She knew about Ashley Massaro and everyone in the world knew about Rita Chatterton. You'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to know about the rest. I've no wish to see innocent people dragged down by any of this. I've no idea why anyone would try and make the case for the people at the top though, considering how horrendously they have failed these poor women. And depending how far they go back in the organisation (not Trips and Steph here), they've failed a lot of young men too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted March 12 Paid Members Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, SuperBacon said: Could that not be "found out and wanted nothing more to do with him/company etc" though? Not defending Stephanie, as only she knows what she does or doesn't know, but doesn't the time line of all this add up to that being a possibility? There would still be the matter of explaining why, after the events described in the lawsuit, and after the initial hush money scandal, Stephanie went out on TV and led a "Thank You Vince" chant in-between his stints with the company, though. It seems a lot easier to frame the situation as Stephanie trying to get out and put some distance between herself and the company (and her father) than as a principled stance against him. I have more sympathy for Stephanie McMahon (and to a lesser extent Triple H) than I do for other executives and whoever else has been either directly involved or complicit in all of this, because God knows how you process all of this happening within your immediate family, particularly when that family is also directly connected to the only job you've ever done and the only world you've ever known, and God knows what growing up in the household of Vince McMahon looked like in terms of establishing baselines of what acceptable behaviour even looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 “Wilfully Oblivious” is essentially a don’t ask don’t tell. It isn’t trying to say he’s completely innocent and all the wrongdoing went on without him having any knowledge of it. It’s more a “Don’t tell me about any of that stuff, please”. Like if you knew a mate or work colleague was having an affair but didn’t want to know details or have it talked about around you, so it’s all just rumours and innuendo should it ever be asked what you knew about it. That’s how I read it anyway, and it doesn’t make it right or anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) 21 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: I think it's similar wishful thinking, personally. Feel free to argue the points made if you disagree. But I don't think it's hyperbole at all. We all know how opinions are shaped by people's opinions of certain personalities in wrestling. Was ever thus. Well seeing as it was me you were directing the comment at, I will say that I don't think wondering to what extent someone knew about the abuse of someone else by a third party is even remotely similar to excusing a man murdering his son. You are right that opinions are shaped by people's existing opinions of certain personalities, but you can't then claim to have "no skin in the game". You're very consistent on your hatred (not unjustified I may add) of WWE but that will surely colour your opinion on this story towards the "they're all guilty" point of view you now hold. I'm not particularly interested in defending Hunter, although I do like the guy from what I've seen on tv. If he knew about the abuse then he should be lined up against the wall with the rest of them. But I'm loathe to point fingers at people indiscriminately. The suit doesn't mention him, and that's probably significant. I don't think it's in the realms of conspiracy theories that HHH knew or suspected Vince was having an affair, but not the details. Edit: I think the Christian Horner news story offers an interesting corollary in terms of how abuses of power are dealt with, or not dealt with, by large organisations. Coverups and shooting the messenger are standard HR tactics. Edited March 12 by Loki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Danger Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 21 minutes ago, BomberPat said: God knows what growing up in the household of Vince McMahon looked like in terms of establishing baselines of what acceptable behaviour even looks like. Well there’s a Chuck Lorre sitcom if ever I’ve seen one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted March 12 Paid Members Share Posted March 12 2 minutes ago, Loki said: You are right that opinions are shaped by people's existing opinions of certain personalities, but you can't then claim to have "no skin in the game". You're very consistent on your hatred (not unjustified I may add) of WWE but that will surely colour your opinion on this story towards the "they're all guilty" point of view you now hold. I edited that to make it clear what I meant. I don't dislike Triple H from what I know of him. He's a very good pro-wrestler, excellent backstage politician, good promo, comes across well in a lot of public appearances (when not dodging questions about major scandals) and is a very solid, but over-rated, booker. That doesn't affect my opinion that all of the people we know have been VERY intimately involved in the day to day running of the organisation should be seriously investigated. 2 minutes ago, Loki said: But I'm loathe to point fingers at people indiscriminately. It's not indiscriminate to suggest that Vince McMahon's closest and most trusted colleagues (and family) knew about these accusations. He spent company money paying NDAs. Stephanie was in meetings about the Ashley Massaro accusations. Two of their closest contacts are named in these papers. It's unrealistic to think any of them were blissfully unaware and if they knew and decided to keep out of it to absolve themselves, they've failed. It all needs investigating. The bad apples all need clearing out and there is absolutely no way anyone should be making the case for their defence until that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaitoRyo Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 7 minutes ago, Loki said: I don't think it's in the realms of conspiracy theories that HHH knew or suspected Vince was having an affair, but not the details. The most likely scenario, in my opinion. We probably won't learn exactly who knew what unless definitive evidence comes to light or they are called to testify in court. Speaking of, I would be fascinated to see if this ends up going to trial. You would assume it gets settled out of court so that WWE/McMahon can avoid the discovery phase, but you never know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted March 12 Paid Members Share Posted March 12 Not to continue to bang the same drum, but please remember this is a public forum and if you're discussing an ongoing legal situation it may be sensible to err on the side of caution when throwing out accusations/statements that might be considered libellous or could be problematic towards any such legal action. Always prudent to be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Coconut Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 6 hours ago, Loki said: Vince was having an affair Euphemism of the century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted March 12 Paid Members Share Posted March 12 The problem with Triple H is, he voted to get him out. Which is good. So that tells you he knew something. But he also voted him back on the board. So that looks like he's let the fox back into the hen house. Is he good for spotting the problem initially or should he be gone for wanting a sex offender to return? I tell you what, Jeff, I wouldnt want to be the one making the decisions at the club! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 9 hours ago, Loki said: I don't think it's in the realms of conspiracy theories that HHH knew or suspected Vince was having an affair, but not the details. From what I've pieced together, it seems quite plausible. After scanning the latest article, which delves into various individuals, it seems the prevailing notion is that Janel Grant was primarily seen as just another of Vince's extramarital affairs. Brian Nurse's behaviour towards her strongly indicates frustration with what he perceives as her being there solely because of her relationship with Vince. Even the conversations attributed to Khan and Blum about her trustworthiness hint at them viewing her more as a potential source of trouble due to her status as Vince's mistress. The crux of the debate centres on whether anyone involved knew that Vince had hired Grant for a vague role, with the understanding that she would essentially be at his disposal for sexual purposes within the WWE, or if they simply thought he was favouring his "bit on the side." I suspect Stephanie might have seen it the same way; it was just another of her dad's "young things" he hooked up with occasionally. If I had to guess who might have genuinely been aware of what was happening, I'd say Vince himself and Laurinitus—the ones directly involved. I doubt Vince was foolish enough to openly reveal himself as an absolute creep and complete deviant. People like Khan would have had too much at stake to risk covering up something like that. It would essentially mean throwing away their entire careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reverend Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Apparently as of the last hour or so - all of Vince McMahon’s remaining shares of the company are now listed for sale. Sounds like something may be coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaaaad! Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 He’s selling his shares because they don’t represent what he wants from a business any more. He’s never wanted to own a professional wrestling company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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