Paid Members Jazzy G Posted October 8, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2019 So they're sticking a "hardcore" lad in a title match for the Philly taping? It's not the worst idea. Although I dread to think how a Jericho/Havoc match would go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrodyGraham Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, jazzygeofferz said: So they're sticking a "hardcore" lad in a title match for the Philly taping? It's not the worst idea. Although I dread to think how a Jericho/Havoc match would go. Havoc will be the nutcase in Jericho's stable by the end of the Philly show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted October 8, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2019 1 hour ago, BrodyGraham said: Havoc will be the nutcase in Jericho's stable by the end of the Philly show. In fairness, that's not the worst idea. You could hide some of Havoc's shortcomings in a stable, and give his character a bit more depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted October 8, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2019 The one AEW PPV I watched proved it was a promotion that, for the most part, probably wasn't going to be for me. But I have to say that it would be really disappointing to see this new upstart promotion kowtow to ECW fans who just won't let it fucking go by putting emphasis on 'hardcore' in any way just because they're doing a show in Philadelphia. Now *that* would stink of TNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Gus Mears Posted October 8, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2019 If Dreamer doesn't cry, we riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted October 8, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: The one AEW PPV I watched proved it was a promotion that, for the most part, probably wasn't going to be for me. But I have to say that it would be really disappointing to see this new upstart promotion kowtow to ECW fans who just won't let it fucking go by putting emphasis on 'hardcore' in any way just because they're doing a show in Philadelphia. Now *that* would stink of TNA. I think they can do that without leaning too heavily into it. Doing a title match that happens to feature a more "hardcore" guy, with a bit of a nod to it being thematically appropriate is one thing. If they start trotting out Tommy Dreamer and Stevie Richards in featured matches, then I'd agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Well, this saves me the time watching the show next week. Absolute shitarses, no interest in them or their terrible "wrestling" style. I echo Devon above, the whole ECW/hardcore thing is dead 20 years (and good riddance to dangerous nonsense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted October 8, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, BomberPat said: I think they can do that without leaning too heavily into it. Doing a title match that happens to feature a more "hardcore" guy, with a bit of a nod to it being thematically appropriate is one thing. If they start trotting out Tommy Dreamer and Stevie Richards in featured matches, then I'd agree with you. Why do they have to do it at all though? They've been very clear that they want to be their own thing, I don't see any reason to tip their hat to a promotion that has been dead for 18 years at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 8, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2019 Thing is hardcore's always been around in one form or another. Some of the really old matches in the 60s and 70s were bloodbaths with all sorts of shit going on. Not to mention the deathmatch trend that started with FMW. I don't like it at all, especially the gratuitous American indy style where every shot is with a weapon (as opposed to the older style where it was teased throughout the match and made a massive deal when someone finally landed on barbed wire), but I'm guessing that hardcore is now seen as more than just homage to eCw, and is considered a staple (pardon the pun) division of any non-WWE wrestling product, like the tag division. I'd rather they just bin it off, to be honest. Have met Jimmy Havoc a few times and he's a lovely guy, don't want to see him out of a job, but I just don't think AEW are going to get anywhere with a hardcore division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted October 8, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Carbomb said: I just don't think AEW are going to get anywhere with a hardcore division. I don’t think they need a division, but would argue that if they did it would flourish with established deathmatch wrestlers like Mox, Janela, Darby and Havoc there. For all of its flaws, the hardcore division in WWF was fantastic at showcasing lower/midcard talents and giving people something to do. Hopefully the way they approach the hardcore stuff is special attractions rather than a full division though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted October 8, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) If this was their first hardcore match, I'd probably agree that it's pandering. Since it's clearly been a fairly major part of the promotion since the start, why not tie it in while you're in an area you know it's popular? While I can take or leave Janela or Havoc (and I'd preferably leave them), I like Darby Allin a lot. I could see a match between him and Jericho being interesting, and if this match is just so they can show a path there, I'm fine with that. If they're going to ram Jimmy Havoc down our throats, I'll be less impressed. They seem to be positioning him as a face, though, so I could see Janela being the addition to the Jeristable. Also, I've liked that a lot of their hardcore stuff has been comedy more than anything else so far. While the bare-feet/thumbtacks spot didn't work out, I did find it hilarious. Edited October 8, 2019 by Chris B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 8, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, FelatioLips said: I don’t think they need a division, but would argue that if they did it would flourish with established deathmatch wrestlers like Mox, Janela, Darby and Havoc there. For all of its flaws, the hardcore division in WWF was fantastic at showcasing lower/midcard talents and giving people something to do. I certainly see that value, but can't shake the feeling it was something of its time; that "Generation X" cultural era in the 90s of cynicism, disillusionment, and rebellion that ECW captured at the time perfectly. It fit the atmosphere. But now? Not so sure. You never know, though. Whilst it's not exactly the same, the era we're living in is definitely quite cynical and jaded, so perhaps it fits after all. Quote Hopefully the way they approach the hardcore stuff is special attractions rather than a full division though. Yeah, I'm more on board with this idea. Don't have to bin off the whole idea of hardcore matches - just give them more meaning by only busting them out for feud-enders. 3 minutes ago, Chris B said: the Jeristable. The "Jerichoalition", surely? Edited October 8, 2019 by Carbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) The WWE popcorn Hardcore Title matches are genuinely my favourite 'hardcore' wrestling ever. Safe, fun, silly shit that at the time seemed an integral part of what made Attitude Era wrestling so cool. They weren't critical darling matches but they did have their place in what was a variety show, and would invariably be one of the playground talking points as well as something brought up from 2001 on from lapsed fans as something lacking. Honestly, I'd take a playlist of them over a playlist of anything by ECW/CZW for my desert island wrestling discs. Al Snow and Bossman's out the arena and across the road saga, the multiple pinfalls time limit stuff from 2000, all fun stuff. Edited October 8, 2019 by Gay as FOOK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted October 8, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Devon Malcolm said: Why do they have to do it at all though? They've been very clear that they want to be their own thing, I don't see any reason to tip their hat to a promotion that has been dead for 18 years at all. It's not even necessarily about ECW, as much as Philadelphia as a whole. Watch early '90s WCW shows from Philly, and the crowd are literally baying for blood. They had a reputation as a tough crowd well before ECW. And it's not like "hardcore" is something AEW are only doing because they're in Philly - their first show had Dustin Rhodes losing a pint of blood, their first TV show had Kenny Omega going through a glass coffee table, they've had thumbtacks spots, chairshots and so on all over their shows, so it's not like they're egregiously pandering to ECW nostalgia so much as potentially tailoring the show to their audience, even if they're even thinking about it in those terms at all. They might just want to give Darby Allin another shot at a break-out performance like they did against Cody. They're not TNA teaming up Rhino, RVD and Tommy Dreamer for a nostalgia pop for the fifteenth time - if there's an ECW connection here at all, it's an incredibly tenuous one. If they start making explicit reference to it, I'll agree that it's a cheap move. For now, I see nothing wrong with it - we're four or five big steps removed from it being an ECW wankfest. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll be back to eat my words next week when they make Tommy Dreamer the special referee or some shit. Edited October 8, 2019 by BomberPat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Post show in philli do the lights off/on they did for ambrose Janella and have a wild & fun “hardcore” style match with half the roster involved to send the crowd home happy. Easy live crowd pleaser and stick it on AEW dark the week after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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