The Celebrity Sexual Harassment and Rapists Thread

[deathrey]

1 hour ago, PunkStep said:

Children (yes, children- it has to start early) need to be educated as to what is and isn't socially acceptable- including gawking at somebody on public transport. Because that's how it starts. 

See it's interesting that you say this because the first time I was catcalled I was still a child, I was 11. I know many women who had their first experience around a similar age.

[Chest Rockwell]

That's so gross. 

[Chris B]

I talked about this on my social media, but part of why I raised the topic in here again is because it's a very guy-heavy place. And those that have been around for a while know that there's some relevant history with former members.

One thing that the British wrestling Speaking Out movement last year raised was how many of us had been around a culture like this. It's not always obvious that's the case when you're around the more deliberate predators, as many of them will be less likely to talk like that around people they know aren't arseholes. But the assumption that 'I haven't seen it, so everything is probably fine' just isn't enough - we need to be an active influence. Just 'not being a bad guy' isn't really enough. We need to make sure we're actively making sure women are safe in our spaces, and that's likely to include being more vocal about these points. 

Some thoughts I put down elsewhere:

Too many men hear that women are afraid of walking alone and think the conversation is just about fear. It isn't. It's about experience.

If you're a guy walking down the street at night, a woman being nervous of you isn't an insult. It's survival. If you're the good guy you claim to be, respect that. It's not a judgement call on you personally. They don't know you. You are literally the shadowy silent figure. And, importantly, this isn't about *you*.

Just because you don't know what's happened to the women in your life doesn't mean they haven't experienced it. They will have, because this is a society-wide issue. Although media coverage of #MeToo has focused on very powerful men, the original conversation was about how every woman you know has been harassed or assaulted.

We are men in society. We are part of the problem. We need to understand how prevalent this is at the very least and we need to communicate it. We need to be better fathers, better teachers and better friends. I know the temptation is to think we shouldn't be part of the conversation, and yes, shutting up and listening is part of it. But it's not the end of it. You need to join in too and help make changes.

Talk to your friends about it. Talk to your sons, nephews, etc about it. Help them understand why women are scared, what they're scared of, and how to avoid being the problem. If you have influence in your life, this is a problem you can help with.

[BomberPat]

29 minutes ago, deathrey said:

See it's interesting that you say this because the first time I was catcalled I was still a child, I was 11. I know many women who had their first experience around a similar age.

I was privy to a conversation about this among a few friends of mine, and if I remember correctly every single one of them said they were first catcalled when they were younger than 16, and most of them while wearing school uniform.

[Chris B]

1 minute ago, BomberPat said:

I was privy to a conversation about this among a few friends of mine, and if I remember correctly every single one of them said they were first catcalled when they were younger than 16, and most of them while wearing school uniform.

Having heard this from a fairly large number of women as well, it's notable that they're not talking about being catcalled by age-appropriate kids either. They're talking about older teenagers and (far more commonly) adults.

[Carbomb]

1 hour ago, Keith Houchen said:

I remember when this was brought up before on here. Someone was saying it wasn’t victim blaming by saying there are preventative measures women can take. I was saying pointing this out after an attack is finger wagging. As soon as you suggest that steps could’ve been taken by the person attacked, it’s victim blaming regardless of how you dress it up 

I have to own up to this and say that was very much my mindset years ago, so it was probably me - with the best of intentions, but with the worst of ignorance. My parents had raised me to be feminist and egalitarian, so I had a complete blind spot in my understanding that led to an arrogance as regards this situation. I thought I was coming from a place of compassionate pragmatism, not realising that nothing I said was new under the sun. I just didn't understand how bad things actually were, and I look back on those days with embarrassment.

[Keith Houchen]

8 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

I have to own up to this and say that was very much my mindset years ago, so it was probably me

It wasn’t you, it was fairly recently. Within the last year or so. 

[Chris B]

I'll also point out that it's likely many of us thought similarly years ago. I don't know about anyone else, but social media (and twitter in particular) has been an amazing thing for understanding other viewpoints in a way I just didn't before. Hearing them normalised, and seeing discussions between women or between people in a particular ethnic group - it was really, really eye-opening. I've always been liberal and tried to be empathetic, but in terms of learning about people without my privilege in a real-time basis has been amazing.

[PunkStep]

1 hour ago, deathrey said:

See it's interesting that you say this because the first time I was catcalled I was still a child, I was 11. I know many women who had their first experience around a similar age.

Disgusting isn't it. Looking back at when I was at secondary school, it happened ALL the time if ever I was walking to/from school with girl friends. No matter what year we were in. My daughter starts year 7 later this year, I'm dreading shit like this. 

[neil]

7 hours ago, BomberPat said:

The biggest thing men should be doing, though, is calling out their mates on this shit. Not politely laughing at sexist jokes and objectification of women. Not saying, "oh, that's just the way he is" about a bloke who tries it on with women who have had too much to drink on every night out, or always has a girlfriend half his age. Make it clear that their behaviour and their view of women is unacceptable - the point of that is fourfold; one, they might actually learn something, two, it won't reinforce those views in the minds of other mates in the group who perhaps think the same way but haven't voiced it, three, it could stop them from taking things too further (in all transgressions, you don't go from point A straight to point Z if point Z is deemed unacceptable, but if point A to point B isn't too much of a stretch, then point C soon starts to look not that bad, then point D, and so on all the way to the end), and four, it tells women that you won't stand for it. If women see that your response to a mate objectifying or targeting women is to make excuses, they're not going to trust you either, you're part of the problem.

Absolutely this. The Gatso incident on here I feel like exactly describes someone who genuinely thought he was telling a "funny" story to his forum mates and absolutely was not expecting to be called out on it. With all the shit that has gone on in the last few years this really does make me think that there is an "echo chamber" aspect to this with men and the social groups they are in, and that, much like if someone pipes out some racist shit then really the worst thing you can do as an observer is to stay silent or worse, chuckle nervously along with it.

[Keith Houchen]

2 minutes ago, neil said:

Absolutely this. The Gatso incident on here I feel like exactly describes someone who genuinely thought he was telling a "funny" story to his forum mates and absolutely was not expecting to be called out on it. With all the shit that has gone on in the last few years this really does make me think that there is an "echo chamber" aspect to this with men and the social groups they are in, and that, much like if someone pipes out some racist shit then really the worst thing you can do as an observer is to stay silent or worse, chuckle nervously along with it.

I think I heard it best summed up with “Feminists don’t think all men are rapists. The only people who think all men are rapists are rapists”. I stopped telling rape jokes after I read that because I knew someone in earshot could see it as justification for their thoughts. The normalisation of creepy behaviour isn’t a sledgehammer, it’s tiny subtleties. 

[WyattSheepMask]

The Gatso incident?

[Your Fight Site]

7 minutes ago, WyattSheepMask said:

The Gatso incident?

Was he the “lovely pillows” guy? Or do we have more than one self-incriminating wrong ‘un?

[SuperBacon]

5 minutes ago, Your Fight Site said:

Or do we have more than one self-incriminating wrong ‘un?

Come on now. You know the answer to that.

[Mr_Danger]

We should start a register, oh wait....