Vince McMahon may actually be done this time [Trigger warning: Sexual Assault]

[chokeout]

8 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Kevin Dunn was mentioned and the timing of him leaving. I think this was because he knew this was going to come back and haunt the company in a bigger way and probably better for him to jump ship before it did. Maybe I am being to cynical.  

I'm 100% convinced that Dunn left before they told him to go away. He's had an unlimited toybox of production equipment his entire career but, speaking from a purely technical stance, he is absolute shit. The second Vince lost full control of the business, his days were numbered. TKO have some of the best talent in the world and weren't going to let him carry on in that role. 

 

[FUM]

Noticed this has made the front page of the Sky News site so hopefully should mean there’s no running from it for him if it’s getting mainstream coverage worldwide.

[Cannibal Man]

is there a legal business term for doing a Triggers Broom on a whole set of management and staff

[Vamp]

There's a difference between knowing and "knowing." That's something that Ian Hislop tried to talk about during the Jimmy Saville revelations. 

It's probably even murkier in this case, because Vince was playing a villainous billionaire playboy on screen who often, not always, played it for parody. 

In a way, I'm more concerned with whether the culture that enabled it has been fully cleared up than Vince McMahon. Fuck him off, obviously, but what's left of that culture? 

[DavidB6937]

18 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

I feel it's a case of not speaking out, because no one wanted the house of cards to collapse. Now it has come out, it's much easier to take the moral high ground and say you had no knowledge when the facts are made public. And Steph leaving is a great example of that.

I think throwing Steph in with everyone else is a bit complicated. That's her dad. The difficulties of dealing with something like that from someone so close to you is a lot different to a bunch of people just wanting to keep their position in a company.

[BomberPat]

10 minutes ago, Vamp said:

There's a difference between knowing and "knowing." That's something that Ian Hislop tried to talk about during the Jimmy Saville revelations. 

It's probably even murkier in this case, because Vince was playing a villainous billionaire playboy on screen who often, not always, played it for parody. 

In a way, I'm more concerned with whether the culture that enabled it has been fully cleared up than Vince McMahon. Fuck him off, obviously, but what's left of that culture? 

Savile comparisons can be overdone (and I know that's not why you've invoked his name), but I think it's valid here because of those questions of the enabling culture - both Savile and McMahon seem pretty uniquely monstrous, but were only able to behave that way for so long and with near-total impunity because of the culture that enabled and protected them. 

You'd hope that some people get taken down with him if they are equally complicit (Laurianitis at the very least), but having somebody as high profile as Vince McMahon to pin everything on must be a godsend for a corrupt corporate culture. You can get rid of the Bad Man and pretend that everything is fixed.

It's also one of the problems with WWE being the industry leader and, for most of the last 25 years, a de facto monopoly. People who might have been inclined to be whistle-blowers about this kind of thing (if, indeed there was anyone in that position) are a lot easier to scare into silence if there's nowhere else they can go and ply their trade.

[wordsfromlee]

2 hours ago, 69MeDon said:

Fucking awful stuff.

On Brock, remember Teri Runnels saying he flashed her at least once?

 

[Jazzy G]

7 hours ago, air_raid said:

Former UFC Champion is the phrase used my friend so that narrows the potential men down to a pool of one.

Oh, absolutely, but still I'd like for my backside to be covered if any alleged doings were to theoretically transpire.

[Hannibal Scorch]

46 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

I think throwing Steph in with everyone else is a bit complicated. That's her dad. The difficulties of dealing with something like that from someone so close to you is a lot different to a bunch of people just wanting to keep their position in a company.

Sorry, but no. Steph is a millionaire. This isn’t like a family dispute which could leave you homeless or in danger. You don’t have to protect your family if they are evil monsters. But then I say this as someone who cut tries with my parents for being narcissistic toxic people and chose for my kids not to be exposed to that, so I probably look at family issues differently.

[Devon Malcolm]

12 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Sorry, but no. Steph is a millionaire. This isn’t like a family dispute which could leave you homeless or in danger. You don’t have to protect your family if they are evil monsters. But then I say this as someone who cut tries with my parents for being narcissistic toxic people and chose for my kids not to be exposed to that, so I probably look at family issues differently.

The amount of money she has is more or less irrelevant. You're still talking about a familial bond and the natural inclination to not believe the worst about a parent. I feel uncomfortable with indivisuals being painted as 'almost certainly' complicit in Vince McMahon and his cronies' actions just because they're related and/or also worked closely with him. It doesn't always work that way. But I understand why this particular discussion could touch a nerve with you personally, sure.

[DavidB6937]

18 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Sorry, but no. Steph is a millionaire. This isn’t like a family dispute which could leave you homeless or in danger. You don’t have to protect your family if they are evil monsters. But then I say this as someone who cut tries with my parents for being narcissistic toxic people and chose for my kids not to be exposed to that, so I probably look at family issues differently.

This isn't a "sorry, but no" situation. It's obvious that a family connection would complicate things. Of course it would for ANYONE. And that's not to suggest she's right or wrong or anything like that. We don't have enough facts to say what she knew or what she should have done etc etc.

It's just a clear statement that someone dealing with their father in a situation like this vs someone who's dealing simply with a boss or a colleague or whatever else is a very different situation. It's not black and white and very few people would be able to just deal with it in an emotionless manner.

[Devon Malcolm]

I also think, as usual, that the survivor's voice gets lost in all these discussions. This is Janel Grant's story to tell. Nobody else's. People will inevitably turn Sherlock and try and identify and speculate who may have been involved in her abuse and enabled it. But she has chosen not to name those names. Maybe she will at a later date but for now the focus should be on Vince McMahon, John Laurinaitis and clearly Brock Lesnar, too. It's her decision to make.

[RedRooster]

42 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Sorry, but no. Steph is a millionaire. This isn’t like a family dispute which could leave you homeless or in danger. You don’t have to protect your family if they are evil monsters. But then I say this as someone who cut tries with my parents for being narcissistic toxic people and chose for my kids not to be exposed to that, so I probably look at family issues differently.

I think the other thing to consider, above what other people have said, is that the kind of behaviour being talked about can be normalised; to the point it becomes extremely difficult for those witnessing it to realise or accept that it is out-of-the-ordinary, or wrong. You’re having to unlearn something, and that can be difficult; particularly when you’ve seen a good side to the person, and have perhaps been given opportunities. The fact that Stephanie is - after being the heir apparent - far removed from the company, and the nature of her statement when her dad returned, speaks volumes to me. 

 

13 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

I also think, as usual, that the survivor's voice gets lost in all these discussions. This is Janel Grant's story to tell. Nobody else's. People will inevitably turn Sherlock and try and identify and speculate who may have been involved in her abuse and enabled it. But she has chosen not to name those names. Maybe she will at a later date but for now the focus should be on Vince McMahon, John Laurinaitis and clearly Brock Lesnar, too. It's her decision to make.

Presumably, if she’s trying to overturn a non-disclosure clause, there are legal restrictions preventing her from doing any of this, even if she wants to. Meaning, sadly, that she’s not necessarily in a position where she can make that decision. Hopefully that changes, and she can take this as far as she wants to. 

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Personally, I think they all knew. Jan in catering might not know. But his inner circle must have. Michael Hayes, Dunn, Prichard, Triple H, Stephanie. Just read the allegations. Vince is walking about openly taking to his staff in some macho twatty manner. You telling me he isnt telling 70s sex offender Michael Hayes and his arse lickers like HHH and Prichard "hey, guess what I did last night? Class, eh?" McMahon is an arrogant vile egomaniac. And I think everyone of them is shitting themselves right no.

 

[69MeDon]

6 minutes ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

Personally, I think they all knew. Jan in catering might not know. But his inner circle must have. Michael Hayes, Dunn, Prichard, Triple H, Stephanie. Just read the allegations. Vince is walking about openly taking to his staff in some macho twatty manner. You telling me he isnt telling 70s sex offender Michael Hayes and his arse lickers like HHH and Prichard "hey, guess what I did last night? Class, eh?" McMahon is an arrogant vile egomaniac. And I think everyone of them is shitting themselves right no.

 

I find it hard to believe that anybody who was ever close to Vince could have had no inkling at all. That would include the big stars who had personal relationships with him, all the execs that came from wrestling prior to the sale, people who helped him write/book prior to them hiring all the Hollywood writers etc.