The General Politics Thread v2.0 (AKA the "Labour are Cunts" thread)

[ReturnOfTheMack]

In lighter news, Doncaster Council had an extraordinary meeting to address the reopening of the airport. A Reform counsellor used his time in the meeting to ask the council to ensure there was a board/panel set up to monitor UFO activity.

 

The video can be found on Facebook on Doncaster Labours page

 

[deathrey]

 

48 minutes ago, Browser Brady said:

what has he done that is so bad exactly?

 

From the outside looking in , he seemed like a “safe pair of hands” which was needed by the UK. 

I think going for winter fuel payments was a pretty big mistake. 

Then Farmers - then reversing - which emphasised the incompetent missteps vibe - making them appear weak/indecisive - the electorate cannot stand a leader who appears to be weak, this made him look like he is ditehring.

The country appears to be lurching to the right and Labour have decided to deal with that by become more apparently right leaning and alienated a lot of Labour voters.

The Child Benefit cap being lifted is positive but even in making that decision, he originally said no, then cowered to pressure and then eventually did the right thing. He doesn't across as a strong leader who knows what he wants and someone who can lead the country in a strong direction. He comes across as someone who can be molded in to whatever thinking suits the people pulling his strings. He should be the one pulling strings. That's a problem.

And as said above, he is doing nothing to reverse the shit state this country is in, he seems to have added to making it worse for the most part. 

[hallicks]

11 minutes ago, westlondonmist said:

You could probably argue removing the child benefit cap was a positive but it's been spun by many into helping immigrants or people who can't afford kids have lots of benefits.

I think it's something like 60% of those that were affected by the cap were working families. Don't forget where the spinning of welfare recepients as unworthy comes from - rich people.

I was listening to the Politics Theory Other podcast yesterday, and the guest made the point that Labour have been very quiet about the few good things they have done - the renters rights act, the employment rights act, for example - because they don't want the government to be seen as being able to actually effect change, that the only acceptable method of government is this kind of managerialism of state apparatus. Any action seen to be demonstrably improving people's lives would be a sign that the government is actually capable of intervening, and they absolutely do not want to raise that kind of expectation in ordinary people. 

 

[westlondonmist]

22 minutes ago, hallicks said:

I think it's something like 60% of those that were affected by the cap were working families. Don't forget where the spinning of welfare recepients as unworthy comes from - rich people.

I was listening to the Politics Theory Other podcast yesterday, and the guest made the point that Labour have been very quiet about the few good things they have done - the renters rights act, the employment rights act, for example - because they don't want the government to be seen as being able to actually effect change, that the only acceptable method of government is this kind of managerialism of state apparatus. Any action seen to be demonstrably improving people's lives would be a sign that the government is actually capable of intervening, and they absolutely do not want to raise that kind of expectation in ordinary people. 

 

I dunno, I've heard lots of older people say they had to struggle through without benefits and rather than want younger people not to they want you to suffer too. I've had to remind people my mum gave a few quid to a woman on the street (who looked after a few kids in the surrounding streets), put some videos on and laid out some toys. You didn't need Ofsted registering an qualifications back then. I explained I to my in-laws, £65 a day we paid (until 2022) and even when we got 30 free hours the child minder it was expensive, just less so. Also you know afterschool club is £14, breakfast club is £9 (we get 20% back), holiday club £45. But the reality was, at the time I worked a LLW job (fortunately I don't now) and without the 30 hours it wouldn't have been worth working. 

 

Labour have done some good stuff, but I think the problem is that some of it is very long term stuff. Workers rights, only affects those having issues, so many will only see the benefits personally in years to come and some won't see it at all (hopefully). Renters Rights Act on the short term has caused many landlords to sell up and sharp rise (where I live anyway) in rents. So again people may see this as harmful right now and probably won't see the benefit for a while. 

Edited May 12 by westlondonmist

[Cousin Jim Bob]

36 minutes ago, deathrey said:

 

I think going for winter fuel payments was a pretty big mistake. 

Then Farmers - then reversing - which emphasised the incompetent missteps vibe - making them appear weak/indecisive - the electorate cannot stand a leader who appears to be weak, this made him look like he is ditehring.

The country appears to be lurching to the right and Labour have decided to deal with that by become more apparently right leaning and alienated a lot of Labour voters.

The Child Benefit cap being lifted is positive but even in making that decision, he originally said no, then cowered to pressure and then eventually did the right thing. He doesn't across as a strong leader who knows what he wants and someone who can lead the country in a strong direction. He comes across as someone who can be molded in to whatever thinking suits the people pulling his strings. He should be the one pulling strings. That's a problem.

And as said above, he is doing nothing to reverse the shit state this country is in, he seems to have added to making it worse for the most part. 

There was also the whole PIP mess, which Starmer again had to back down on when threatened with a rebellion. Two of the first big policies this government came up with were to fuck with old people and then the disabled was some choice, especially when they had campaigned on "Change". Loads of people immediately realised fuck all had actually changed and this was the same punching down as the Tories.

 

Andy Burnham seems the best of what they could throw out there as a new leader. Wes Streeting the worst by miles.

It will be Streeting in this hell hole of a time line won't it..

[hallicks]

33 minutes ago, westlondonmist said:

I dunno, I've heard lots of older people say they had to struggle through without benefits and rather than want younger people not to they want you to suffer too. I've had to remind people my mum gave a few quid to a woman on the street (who looked after a few kids in the surrounding streets), put some videos on and laid out some toys. You didn't need Ofsted registering an qualifications back then. I explained I to my in-laws, £65 a day we paid (until 2022) and even when we got 30 free hours the child minder it was expensive, just less so. Also you know afterschool club is £14, breakfast club is £9 (we get 20% back), holiday club £45. But the reality was, at the time I worked a LLW job (fortunately I don't now) and without the 30 hours it wouldn't have been worth working.

Pretty common for that generation. It's apples and oranges when it comes to the economic realities for millenials and Gen Z to what came before, there's just this perception from older people that we're all not trying hard enough even though most of us will likely still be working in our late 60's/early 70's. 

33 minutes ago, westlondonmist said:

Labour have done some good stuff, but I think the problem is that some of it is very long term stuff. Workers rights, only affects those having issues, so many will only see the benefits personally in years to come and some won't see it at all (hopefully). Renters Rights Act on the short term has caused many landlords to sell up and sharp rise (where I live anyway) in rents. So again people may see this as harmful right now and probably won't see the benefit for a while. 

I'm not really debating the merits or lack thereof of those two things, my point was that what little good stuff they have done, they basically haven't made any kind of deal out of it at all. Starmer is universally hated because he's perceived on all sides as being fucking useless at everything. However milquetoast the workers rights act is, it's something isn't it? An end to section 21 evictions is also something. If they don't want to be seen as useless, make a point of having done something. But there's just that pervading feeling that we're 2 years in and nothing has really changed. 

Edited May 12 by hallicks

[Carbomb]

There are all those mis-steps, and then there's also the anti-trans stuff/Cass Report, and doubling down on it, there's the "Island of Strangers" speech and the rest of the shitty anti-immigrant rhetoric, and let's not forget the clamping down on the freedom of speech for pro-Palestine protesters, having peaceful protesters arrested just for saying two words, especially against the backdrop of doing barely anything about Stephen Yaxley-Lennon and the knuckledragging fuckers attacking hotels.

Yes, they've done some good stuff that they should have made a bigger deal out of, but let's not pretend that they haven't done some really quite awful shit that makes a mockery of the change they were supposed to bring.

[LaGoosh]

51 minutes ago, westlondonmist said:

I've heard lots of older people say they had to struggle through without benefits and rather than want younger people not to they want you to suffer too

Yep, there's definitely something inherently wrong with a certain generation in this country and it's been holding the country back for decades. Just a vile, selfish mindset of moaning about everything but not wanting anything to change or even make any attempt to improve anything. It's genuinely sick.

Edited May 12 by LaGoosh

[deathrey]

@Carbomb How did I forget about that speech?! It was truly a dark day, and a true signal to me that things were going to go south quickly for us as a country. That was the day I truly knew I could never vote for Labour again in its current guise. 

[gmoney]

1 hour ago, LaGoosh said:

Yep, there's definitely something inherently wrong with a certain generation in this country and it's been holding the country back for decades. Just a vile, selfish mindset of moaning about everything but not wanting anything to change or even make any attempt to improve anything. It's genuinely sick.

I've also seen some of the laziest ex-colleagues I've ever known, who are roughly my age, whinge about people not working hard these days. It's not just a generational delusion, I think we just see it the most from old cunts. Younger cunts will pick up the baton no problem. 

[SuperBacon]

Goodbye Jess Phillips!

Also, I'll bring this up every time I'm reminded of Streeting.

Also I'm not praising Labour for the Renters Rights Act, its the bare fucking minimum. Until they tackle landlords, second (and more) home ownership, building agreements and S106s, nothing will ever change.

[CavemanLynn]

Do we think there's a chance that the smaller parties ever form a coalition? Trying to put a less negative spin on the depressing election results, it seems like Reform's bump was from a migration of Tory support, whilst the liberal voters, a majority overall, ended up split across more parties. The problem is, the voters are trending ahead of the electoral system, something that has usually been the case but is even more important with things feeling as on-the-brink as they do right now. Will the smaller parties ever try to capitalise and unite, without in-fighting and imploding?

[Merzbow]

Better news for Birmingham at least, Reform won't be running things as they can't from a majority as not a single other party will work with them.

[Fog Dude]

2 hours ago, Merzbow said:

Better news for Birmingham at least, Reform won't be running things as they can't from a majority as not a single other party will work with them.

Looking at the results there, Reform are the largest party but only hold 23 seats out of 101. That's the sort of low figure which makes you think local elections might as well take place under STV at this point, as they already do in Scotland.

[gmoney]

A bad as Starmer is. As much of duplicitous wanker he is. As much of a useless ham headed prick. It boggles my mind that anyone could look at Wes Streeting and think would be better. As much as people question the real popularity of Andy Burnham, I've never heard a kind word said about Streeting. An odious student politics boil.