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The General Politics Thread v2.0 (AKA the "Labour are Cunts" thread)


David

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I guess to avoid the Tory thread becoming bogged down with non-Tory cunt talk a new general politics thread is in order since the last one was closed.

I've seen it mentioned a few times elsewhere, but this Scottish SNP leadership storyline really is picking up steam, with the latest declaration coming from Ash Regan who claims that a vote for independence-backing parties at the next general election "is the same as a referendum".

Basically, she believes that "we run each and every election, that would be general elections and Scottish elections, as a test of public opinion - a trigger point if you like" for Scottish independence.

Personally, I think we're seeing the beginning of the end of the SNP as we know it. 

I know much focus has been on the GRR bill, but there truly is some questionable shit going on elsewhere that isn't really being given a lot of scrutiny in my opinion. 

That would include Sturgeon's husband, Peter Murrell's £107,000 loan to the SNP which led to multiple compliance issues.

Parties are supposed to declare all loans of £7,500 or more within a 30 day window of the quarter in which they are paid, but the SNP failed to declare Murrell’s loan for a year.

The SNP also hid Murrell's name in the accounts, saying the interest-free loan came from an unnamed “executive management”. Murrell has been running the SNP for 20 years! 

The party's treasurer quit, claiming he was not given enough information about finances to do his job, while three other members of the SNP's finance and audit committee also resigned.

There's also the issue of the police investigation into an alleged £600,000 fraud case that saw some higher-ups in the SNP interviewed a few days before Sturgeon resigned. 

Sturgeon's husband, who is the SNP CEO, was the only person who had "complete oversight and control over all aspects of accounts, how any money was spent and, ultimately, all key decisions" apparently.

And get this...he also has almost complete control over who replaces his wife at the top of the party. There has been demands for independent adjudicators to be brought in to oversee the leadership election process.

So yeah, it definitely looks like Sturgeon was getting out of dodge before the ship finally sinks.

Edited by David
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Private Eye have been running the story about Sturgeon's financial misconduct potential for about 18 months now, and it definitely feels like it might be about to break into the mainstream press, and hence her suddenly changing her mind on carrying on.

I completely agree @Davidthat the entire SNP endeavour could be in trouble.  They lost the referendum but Brexit saved their bacon as something to rally around.  Now though, the public doesn't WANT independence (the polls show) and without that as a unifying factor the SNP is a motley collection of divergent interests and radically different cultural sensibilities.

Is there any way that Salmond's Alba party will pick up the pieces?  Surely Labour will be the big winners out of all this.

 

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5 hours ago, David said:

know much focus has been on the GRR bill

 

2 hours ago, Loki said:

Is there any way that Salmond's Alba party will pick up the pieces?

It was fucking galling to hear him bang on about the safety of women during this, given the host of sexual allegations against him. 

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  • Paid Members

Having worked in a polling station at the last local elections in our area, at the upcoming elections in May I am working as an election verifier at the count. I couldn't work in the polling station because I don't agree with the need to present photo ID at the ballot box. So I look forward to seeing the counting end of the process having seen the voting end last time. 

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13 hours ago, Keith Houchen said:

It was fucking galling to hear him bang on about the safety of women during this, given the host of sexual allegations against him. 

Allegations, it's fair to say, are absolutely ridiculous. It's claims like those, which are so obviously politically motivated, that paint actual legit claims of sexual allegation in a bad light and make people doubt women and so forth.

As soon as they were made Salmond was right into court to have them dismissed. The SNP did play a blinder there though, because they knew that an unproven was the best he'd get, which means the character assassination was accomplished.

But yeah, a little bit of reading into the background of those claims kinda shows exactly the kind of people who run the SNP. They think nothing of using a serious subject like sexual assault to further their own agenda.

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13 hours ago, David said:

Allegations, it's fair to say, are absolutely ridiculous. It's claims like those, which are so obviously politically motivated, that paint actual legit claims of sexual allegation in a bad light and make people doubt women and so forth.

As soon as they were made Salmond was right into court to have them dismissed. The SNP did play a blinder there though, because they knew that an unproven was the best he'd get, which means the character assassination was accomplished.

But yeah, a little bit of reading into the background of those claims kinda shows exactly the kind of people who run the SNP. They think nothing of using a serious subject like sexual assault to further their own agenda.

I was debating whether to reply to this. At the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

I worked with the husband of one of the females involved in the case and I witnessed first hand the effect the case was having on both her and her husband. 

I won’t go into any further details as they deserve their privacy but to state her allegation was “so obviously politically motivated”, “paints legit claims of sexual allegation in a bad light”, “makes people doubt women” and using “sexual assault to further her agenda” is incredibly insensitive, offensive and untrue. In my opinion. 

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12 hours ago, MrK said:

I was debating whether to reply to this. At the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

I worked with the husband of one of the females involved in the case and I witnessed first hand the effect the case was having on both her and her husband. 

I won’t go into any further details as they deserve their privacy but to state her allegation was “so obviously politically motivated”, “paints legit claims of sexual allegation in a bad light”, “makes people doubt women” and using “sexual assault to further her agenda” is incredibly insensitive, offensive and untrue. In my opinion. 

And everyone is entitled to their opinion. I believe the entire case was politically motivated. The way both Sturgeon and her husband went about essentially trying to bully the police into expediting the case against Salmond was only one part of it. 

I think a whole lot will come to light about the SNP and how its been run over the past ten years or so that will shock a lot of people. The fact that the party has been run by a husband and wife team, with one being First Minister and the other being the CEO is absolutely ridiculous to begin with.

Sturgeon left very quickly. And burn-out wasn't the reason. I'm interested to see how it all unfolds down the line.

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But that doesn’t mean the abuses didn’t happen. Sure it was factionalised and weaponised, but that doesn’t mean all the women who made the allegations are all making it up. Salmond was often described as “Touchy Feely” and my point about him was how it’s farcical he suddenly speaks up about women’s safety. 
 

His sudden concern for women’s safety is politically motivated too. 

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9 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

But that doesn’t mean the abuses didn’t happen.

It doesn't, but it also doesn't mean they did happen. Innocent until proven guilty and all that? Although, as I said, regardless of if it did or did not happen he's paid the price anyway. Allegations like those are pretty much the death knell to any political career. Even if you're acquitted of all charges against you and successfully awarded over half a million pounds in legal costs. 

But, the stink doesn't go away. People remember the accusations. No one really cares to remember the acquittal. 

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26 minutes ago, David said:

And everyone is entitled to their opinion. I believe the entire case was politically motivated. The way both Sturgeon and her husband went about essentially trying to bully the police into expediting the case against Salmond was only one part of it. 

I think a whole lot will come to light about the SNP and how its been run over the past ten years or so that will shock a lot of people. The fact that the party has been run by a husband and wife team, with one being First Minister and the other being the CEO is absolutely ridiculous to begin with.

Sturgeon left very quickly. And burn-out wasn't the reason. I'm interested to see how it all unfolds down the line.


I wish you’d pick a point and stick to it rather than jumping about and moving the goalposts. I have no issue with your concerns on how the SNP are run.  There is probably some merit in that.

 

My issue was with the quotes below:

On 3/7/2023 at 9:57 AM, David said:

Allegations, it's fair to say, are absolutely ridiculous. It's claims like those, which are so obviously politically motivated, that paint actual legit claims of sexual allegation in a bad light and make people doubt women and so forth.
………

They think nothing of using a serious subject like sexual assault to further their own agenda.

That is extremely harsh and unfair on the victims. Unless you believe the women that came forward are not actually victims and are just lying?

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11 minutes ago, MrK said:

That is extremely harsh and unfair on the victims. Unless you believe the women that came forward are not actually victims and are just lying?

I believe that Alex Salmond wasn't found guilty of what he was accused of. And that was despite the not inconsiderable power and influence of the Scottish government and its CEO being put into play to try and force a result against him.

All the women involved were current or former Scottish government officials, or SNP politicians, and having read numerous reports of how the SNP hierarchy has pressured, cajoled and outright bullied those within its ranks to toe the line and carry out what they want it wouldn't surprise me if this was the case here.

Basically, I believe if there was even the slightest whiff of guilt about Salmond he'd have been convicted considering the parties involved and the influence being wielded.

Edited by David
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This is the fundamental issue with Scottish politics. There are many who will defend the SNP no matter what and there are others who will happily form a view based on whatever opposes the SNP because of their dislike for them. I think if you are prepared to believe Alex Salmond always behaved appropriately around women you are likely to be the latter.

I'm a former SNP member having swept up a bit by the 2014 referendum. I quite quickly realised they are a political party like any other with probably a decent number of careerists who don't really believe in independence.

However, my opinion until recently was they were absolutely worth my vote overall because they have done a lot of good. There have been significant failures too, which cant be ignored. Some can maybe be caveated by not having full policy autonomy or borrowing powers but not all.

There may well be some revelations around finance that are not good, but I have quite a high opinion of Nicola Sturgeon. I think she has genuine compassion and a will to make life a bit easier for those who have it hardest. Humza Yousaf is not on her level as a politician and will struggle. That said, I will absolutely not vote for a party headed by Kate Forbes or Ash Regan. For the first time in my life I feel politically homeless because I also cannot vote Labour due to their continued betrayal of working class communities. Scottish Labour should breakaway in my opinion as there is an opening for voters with similar views to mine at the moment. 

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