The General Politics Thread v2.0 (AKA the "Labour are Cunts" thread)

[Keith Houchen]

Starmer effectively saying Corbyn can’t stand as a Labour MP because he lost an election. Poor old Ed Miliband must be shitting it seeing how he got a smaller voter share when he lost an election. 
 

Still, at least he sticks to his guns and doesn’t break pledges or anything 

 

[Nick James]

From my perspective, the problem with the public and UK politics, is it seems that there are 3 camps:

1. You have your Tories and / or rich folk and you can probably throw in the Tommy Robinson supporter types who are all about Immigration and what not (UKIP / Brexit Party / latest Nigel Farage vehicle). 
2. You have the middle ground (Myself) who either don't know enough about politics or don't have any interest to try and know enough that believe that its either Red or Blue and if you want the Blue out, you have to vote Red.
3. You have the political elite who understand political terminology, legislation and policies etc (Most of this thread) and understand that politics isn't a binary choice or like picking a football team.

I have no idea how you move most people from the 2nd camp into the 3rd in a short space of time to really make an impact at the next GE. I am certainly in the 2nd camp, as no matter how much I have tried, I just don't have the interest level to truly understand politics. It should be a subject that is taught in schools, rather than some of the more useless subjects that are taught. As far as I know, there isn't much at all around politics in schools, which I presume is because its a difficult one to teach without leaning one way or the other. 

[Keith Houchen]

15 minutes ago, Nick James said:

I have no idea how you move most people from the 2nd camp into the 3rd

To be honest, it’s not in the main parties interest to do so. The more people who gain a better understanding of the way things are, the more they know they’ll be obsolete. 
 

Engaging youth is the way. Most people’s first experience of politics used to be joining a union when starting their first job. That’s gone now and it suits the main parties. There was some bloke recently who got millions of young people interested in politics and making a change for everyone by challenging the establishment, but not sure what happened to him. 
 

Edit. 
“As far as I know, there isn't much at all around politics in schools, which I presume is because its a difficult one to teach without leaning one way or the other. “

And the tories make it even more difficult now as anything seemingly “Lefty” or “Woke” gets shunted. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Keith Houchen

[BomberPat]

1 minute ago, Keith Houchen said:

Engaging youth is the way. Most people’s first experience of politics used to be joining a union when starting their first job. That’s gone now and it suits the main parties. There was some bloke recently who got millions of young people interested in politics and making a change for everyone by challenging the establishment, but not sure what happened to him. 

when I was living in Jersey, the local left-wing party used to host "Pint and Politics" nights to discuss issues and whatnot, that were a good idea in principle, but in practice they were uniquely shit at organising and it was just the same old crowd every time. One of the better attended was a discussion on racism and discrimination, and other than a few people who quite bravely shared their experience of being discriminated against, it was mostly a lot of right-on self-congratulatory stuff by a room full of well-off white folk. But then right at the end, one bloke stood up and said, "if you want to actually combat discrimination at work, and have someone to stand up for you over it, join a union", and handed out a bunch of flyers, and it was the closest thing to an actual achievement or solution in the entire meeting. Funny, that.

The way to get people engaged in politics is the same as it always was - meet people where they are. It's why doorstepping is still a thing when it feels like it should be a very archaic, inefficient means of political organisation. It's a truism that all politics is local, but that's the essence of it, really, if you can meet people on their specific issue - a new road development in their town, the village pub getting bulldozed for a new road, potholes outside their kids' school, or shit treatment by their boss - and help them out, that's also where you reach them about how their issue is part of a wider political landscape. 

 

The problem with all that is the combination of a media that is heavily weighted towards supporting that binary two-party system, and supporting one party over the other, and our FPTP electoral system, limits the actual impact that this kind of local activism and work can achieve, which only serves to leave more people feeling like their vote doesn't matter and that politics isn't for them.

I'm also increasingly convinced of a kind of forelock-tugging subservience and "knowing one's place" being deep-rooted in the English national character. With everything going on in France at the moment, I'm seeing a lot of Tweets and think-pieces about "well, why don't we act like this?", and I'm reminded of an old Rob Newman stand-up bit, where he talks about attending anarchist, non-hierarchical protest groups for the first time, and how he'd walk up to whoever looked like they were in charge and say, "I think you should be doing this", and they'd just give him a look that he eventually realised meant, "okay, you do it then", so he shut up and never suggested anything again. We spend too much of our time waiting around for someone else to get the job done, and not enough time getting off our arses and doing it. 

[Dead Mike]

18 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

There was some bloke recently who got millions of young people interested in politics and making a change for everyone by challenging the establishment, but not sure what happened to him. 
 

. 

He got fucked off for being shit. Turns out all those young people were so 'engaged' they forgot to actually vote. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

We spend too much of our time waiting around for someone else to get the job done, and not enough time getting off our arses and doing it. 

A hundred percent, and this includes people refusing to change their shopping habits or entertainment sources to stand by their principles, because "if everyone isn't doing it, why should I?" It's always someone else's responsibility to go first, and usually second, third, fourth, until some unspecified critical mass is reached. Then it's OK to stand and be counted - the point when it really won't make a difference.

[Keith Houchen]

18 minutes ago, Dead Mike said:

He got fucked off for being shit. Turns out all those young people were so 'engaged' they forgot to actually vote. 

Didn’t 2017 have the highest turnout for 18-25 year old voters in decades?

[Carbomb]

28 minutes ago, Uncle Zeb said:

A hundred percent, and this includes people refusing to change their shopping habits or entertainment sources to stand by their principles, because "if everyone isn't doing it, why should I?" It's always someone else's responsibility to go first, and usually second, third, fourth, until some unspecified critical mass is reached. Then it's OK to stand and be counted - the point when it really won't make a difference.

That's essentially people in a nutshell. It's why buskers usually put a few coins in their hat before they start playing.

One of the biggest realisations I've come to in recent years is that, when someone achieves something, a big chunk of the time it has less to do with skill or hard work (or what we think of as skill or hard work), and more to do with the fact that somebody just made a decision to simply do the thing.

[Devon Malcolm]

42 minutes ago, Dead Mike said:

He got fucked off for being shit.

So, Starmer out any day soon then?

[Keith Houchen]

1 minute ago, Devon Malcolm said:

So, Starmer out any day soon then?

But Labour are ahead in the polls and that’s all down to Starmer, nothing to do with the tories being so terrible. And recent polls that show Sunak is preferred as PM over him have nothing to do with anything. 

[Dead Mike]

1 minute ago, Keith Houchen said:

But Labour are ahead in the polls and that’s all down to Starmer

Nobody said that. I know lots of you really liked Corbyn but he was hated by the people he was meant to represent.  Now because of that we're living with the consequences of a Government who can push through whatever legislation they want. It's shit.

[Keith Houchen]

27 minutes ago, Dead Mike said:

Edited March 27, 2023 by Keith Houchen
I can’t read

[Dead Mike]

3 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

You said the young people he engaged forget to vote, I was saying they did. 

There's no evidence of this.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-29/corbyn-s-2017-electoral-youthquake-didn-t-happen-study-finds?leadSource=uverify wall

in 2017 (when we lost by 50 seats) many lended their vote to Labour as they thought it was their chance to undo Brexit.

It would've been amazing if young Brits mobilised and got involved. Turns out a bunch of Tarquins at Glastonbury just liked chanting along to that White Stripes riff.

[Keith Houchen]

17 minutes ago, Dead Mike said:

Edited March 27, 2023 by Keith Houchen
I can’t read

[Retro Red]

6 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I’m not registered

Required statement for new UKFF sign-ups?