The General Politics Thread v2.0 (AKA the "Labour are Cunts" thread)

[Carbomb]

1 hour ago, Merzbow said:

Maybe accelerationism *is* the answer...

I really don't want to be a disaster socialist, but people just won't fucking learn. I still remember that interview with a woman at a food bank who, after listing all her financial worries, insisted she was going to vote for BJ's Tories because he was "going to get Brexit done". When you realise just how much of Reform's supporter base think like that, it's clear they're only going to turn on them when they suffer, and even then I'm not sure.

1 hour ago, Scratch said:

Our local councillor has been a genuine one-of-a-kind for the last 15 years. He’s everywhere, just helping out. I’ve seen him out on his own cutting back the hedges to clear the path, I’ve seen him with a high vis getting stuck in with road repairs, and he even asked to meet with my nephew when his bike was stolen to see what could be done to get him back on the road.

If you need him, you hardly even need to ask - he just offers. Our estate was being absolutely shafted by the ground works management company and he arranged a meeting (in my back garden no less) to suggest ways to get it sorted. He took all the notes and within a week had a reply from the company that nobody had been able to get before, with a promise to bring our annual charges down from almost £600 to £240, plus backdated refunds. He’s everything a councillor should be and he does it because he wants to make a difference.

But he’s just lost his seat to a Reform candidate that nobody has ever heard of. The twat down the road who got a Reform footy top for Christmas said he was proudly voting for them at the council elections and when I asked him the name of the candidate, he didn’t know.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised given I’m in Farrage’s constituency.

This is another thing I hate about politics right now: it has me hoping for solutions that are normally against what I believe in. I am against FPTP, but it kept Reform a minority party.

Similarly, I am very much against the ingrained, lazy culture of treating the local elections like a popularity contest for the Westminster party, because it penalises good councillors and elevates shit ones. But with the arrogance of the two main parties, ignoring any and all voices of dissent, they become the only avenue to actually let them know the displeasure of the populace.

43 minutes ago, Merzbow said:

How many Green candidates did any actual real canvassing? None around me did, felt like they just forced in multiple names without qualification, not too unlike Reform and that's not gonna to get the left on board. 

In fact the only person who did was an independent Socialist, a local who's out there in the community constantly.

We had pretty heavy canvassing from them in my area (Haringey). They've always been pretty active around here.

[JNLister]

It's frustrating how many people are going to assume that "the country voted Reform" or "most people voted Reform" when they're actually going to be getting about 30% of the votes cast yesterday.

[westlondonmist]

14 minutes ago, JNLister said:

It's frustrating how many people are going to assume that "the country voted Reform" or "most people voted Reform" when they're actually going to be getting about 30% of the votes cast yesterday.

In what is probably a 30% turnout. 

[DavidB6937]

Without wanting to downplay the fact there are a lot of idiots who deliberately voted Reform and do believe in their policies, I do really think they've snuck in to a fair few places simply on the disillusioned nature of many with how things have been lately. There's definitely a "well things can't be any worse can they?" attitude which is incredibly naive because of course they fucking can and if you bothered to delve even shallowly into Reform policies then there's a lot to be concerned about. But so many don't. There's a very surface level approach to politics - both local and country - based on what people see on TV and read in the papers etc rather than based on any factual interrogation of policies or the people to vote for.

It's frustrating because I completely get how a lot of people feel but just jumping ship isn't the answer.

[westlondonmist]

4 hours ago, SuperBacon said:

You could probably put Wales on that too. Reform doing really well there. 

[Jazzy G]

6 hours ago, Merzbow said:

How many Green candidates did any actual real canvassing? None around me did, felt like they just forced in multiple names without qualification, not too unlike Reform and that's not gonna to get the left on board. 

In fact the only person who did was an independent Socialist, a local who's out there in the community constantly.

I got an email from my local Green Party asking people to stand just in order for them to have posted a candidate in some wards. I think they knew they didn't have a chance of getting anything other than "look at the support we got" in my town and hoping they may be able to do better in a year when we have the proper elections. My council was previously Labour with an opposition comprised of various  independent councillors, but has now gone to "no overall control" due to some of the Labour seats going to Reform who then starred as they mean to go on by not attending the count and therefore not being photographed with the rest of the council. Our average turnout was about 45% so I'm guessing next year when we do this all again Reform are hoping they'll sleepwalk their way into control because people are fed up of all this voting malarkey. 

Anyway, all the Reform supporters are celebrating our council having no overall control like it's the day after the battle of Yorktown* and can't wait until Starmer resigns over some different people being in charge of bin collections. It's ridiculous. 

Good to see some Green councils and mayors. I feel like the real test of Labour is how they react to what Starmer called the rise of the "extreme left" following Gorton and Denton. The vote on the right come the General Election looks like it could be split a number of ways. I'd be surprised if Badenoch is still there by then or whether they've tried replaced her with a white man to try and claw some of the vote back.

I'm also convinced, possibly naively, that Farage is going to do everything he can to avoid getting into government while making it look like he's not doing it deliberately because of all the other incomes he'd have to give up, he'd have to turn up to parliament at least once a week, and the fact that he can't bitch about the establishment if he's the establishment.

[CTXRussomark]

3 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

Without wanting to downplay the fact there are a lot of idiots who deliberately voted Reform and do believe in their policies, I do really think they've snuck in to a fair few places simply on the disillusioned nature of many with how things have been lately. 

Absolutely this.  I have lifelong friends who I was gobsmacked to find out were voting Reform solely on the basis it was the best way to do the most damage to the established parties (ignoring the fact Reform are every bit a part of that same establishment).  Incredibly short sighted but they're so disillusioned that they don't care.  They're not even kidding themselves that Reform would be any better - they just want to see the world burn after the last 15 years of incompetence.  And sadly I can sort of understand it. 

[SuperBacon]

30 minutes ago, Jazzy G said:

I'm also convinced, possibly naively, that Farage is going to do everything he can to avoid getting into government

That is naive in my opinion. His dream is to be PM, no matter how much he'd fuck it up and no doubt leave in disgrace somehow. There's no way he doesn't want to be in government. 

[westlondonmist]

27 minutes ago, CTXRussomark said:

Absolutely this.  I have lifelong friends who I was gobsmacked to find out were voting Reform solely on the basis it was the best way to do the most damage to the established parties (ignoring the fact Reform are every bit a part of that same establishment).  Incredibly short sighted but they're so disillusioned that they don't care.  They're not even kidding themselves that Reform would be any better - they just want to see the world burn after the last 15 years of incompetence.  And sadly I can sort of understand it. 

Surely not twigging that they are mainstream considering they have a career politician as leader and several Tory cabinet members high up in their party makes them idiots?

 

6 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

That is naive in my opinion. His dream is to be PM, no matter how much he'd fuck it up and no doubt leave in disgrace somehow. There's no way he doesn't want to be in government. 

He wants it, and part of me is curious to what it's like. I imagine he fucks off trade partners and our economy fucked for decades. At best I'd see him overspending to appease but leaving the following government (even if Reform with a different leader) to clear up. 

[JNLister]

1 hour ago, Jazzy G said:

 

I'm also convinced, possibly naively, that Farage is going to do everything he can to avoid getting into government while making it look like he's not doing it deliberately because of all the other incomes he'd have to give up, he'd have to turn up to parliament at least once a week, and the fact that he can't bitch about the establishment if he's the establishment.

I think his dream would be to be the largest party but not a majority, get kept out of government by a coalition, and then be leader of the opposition so he can gob off every week while complaining the establishment have stitched things up and cheated the winners of their rightful place in Downing Street.

[garynysmon]

The Senedd map is looking very different now.

[SuperBacon]

45 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

The Senedd map is looking very different now.

Shamefully I really don't know much about the Welsh government. Is there likely to be an independence referendum any time soon? I could swear someone from the SNP mentioned another Scottish one last night, but can't remember ever seeing anything about Wales.

[Fog Dude]

23 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Shamefully I really don't know much about the Welsh government. Is there likely to be an independence referendum any time soon? I could swear someone from the SNP mentioned another Scottish one last night, but can't remember ever seeing anything about Wales.

There's still just about an anti-independence majority in the chamber, and just as the SNP did during their first term in Scotland, Plaid this time promised they'd use the powers they've got as well as possible (we've still got way less self-government than Holyrood, BTW) and will ask for a referendum only if re-elected for a second term.

Voted Green myself, pleased to see they made the breakthrough albeit in Cardiff as expected so my vote didn't actually help them one iota. With the same vote share on the old system they'd probably have won at least four seats out of 60, but the new "proportional" method meant they only got two out of 96.

[HandsomeButchIII]

C'MON RHUN, LA!

Four Plaid in my constituency. Sexy fucking football!

Edited May 8 by HandsomeButchIII

[HandsomeButchIII]

1 hour ago, SuperBacon said:

Shamefully I really don't know much about the Welsh government. Is there likely to be an independence referendum any time soon? I could swear someone from the SNP mentioned another Scottish one last night, but can't remember ever seeing anything about Wales.

Not for a generation or so. Plaid have said they aren't looking at independence, and they are right not to as only 25 or so % (off the top of my head) want it. SNP got to 50/50 and went for it and went down. 

 

Personally I am for independence, but what really caught Wales was a party with a positive and progressive message, which is a massive rarity in this climate. Also the turnout was HUGE. It's a proper mandate.