Tsurutagun Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Rope breaks in a no-dq match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Also no DQ multi matches where everyone spends the first five minutes or so tagging in and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Impact Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 22 hours ago, Tsurutagun said: Rope breaks in a no-dq match For me this depends on the stipulation, and WWE have made a right old mess of things with how similar certain match types are. Streetlfight v no dq v hardcore for eg Rope breaks SHOULD count in a no dq match. The fall must take place in the ring and so breaking the plane of the ropes would prevent a legal pin or submission attempt. The referee would just not be able to force anyone to break a hold, even though they should try to via a count to keep the match going towards a finish, they just can't dq anyone for ignoring the count. In hardcore matches there is no requirement to finish in the ring, therefore rope breaks are not necessary. 90% of these will finish outside the ring though, so rope breaks don't really come in to it. Being pinned whilst not flat to the floor is nonsense though. A streetfight to me is simply a no dq match but not sanctioned by the parent company. This is where it becomes a bit wild west, and where the lines become blurred. I think it's a good opportunity for any wrestling company to build intrigue by announcing a streetfight match, "non sanctioned, but the competitors have agreed on the following rules", such as street clothing, no stoppages etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RancidPunx Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 On 1/7/2022 at 4:48 PM, air_raid said: Both the two Action Zone Jarrett/Holly matches in 95 and Raw Goldust/Savio matches in 96 were taped on the same nights. Action Zone was the balls before we had Raw. I remember the Razor/Kid Vs Shawn/Diesel match being a belter but was there many other great matches from the Action Zone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted January 9, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2022 45 minutes ago, RancidPunx said: I remember the Razor/Kid Vs Shawn/Diesel match being a belter but was there many other great matches from the Action Zone ? It wasn’t so much about “great” matches as it was getting real superstar vs superstar matches when Challenge was only squashes and Superstars the same plus one “main event.” Many of the house show feuds ended up getting one of the matches broadcasted on Action Zone if they weren’t going to get to a PPV like Luger vs Tatanka and Bulldog vs Bundy. Things occasionally happened of note like Men on A Mission got a tag title shot at the Gunns after they turned heel right before Mania XI. The first episode had Bret defend the belt against Owen and later on Diesel also defended the belt against Owen and against Bob Backlund. It was getting an extra “proper match” every week when, as I say, we didn’t have Raw so were starved of them. In terms of quality…. Bret vs Owen is definitely worth watching and Bam Bam had a belter with Kid (IIRC) right before the Rumble, which I think did make it to a Coliseum tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RancidPunx Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 12 minutes ago, air_raid said: It wasn’t so much about “great” matches as it was getting real superstar vs superstar matches when Challenge was only squashes and Superstars the same plus one “main event.” Many of the house show feuds ended up getting one of the matches broadcasted on Action Zone if they weren’t going to get to a PPV like Luger vs Tatanka and Bulldog vs Bundy. Things occasionally happened of note like Men on A Mission got a tag title shot at the Gunns after they turned heel right before Mania XI. The first episode had Bret defend the belt against Owen and later on Diesel also defended the belt against Owen and against Bob Backlund. It was getting an extra “proper match” every week when, as I say, we didn’t have Raw so were starved of them. In terms of quality…. Bret vs Owen is definitely worth watching and Bam Bam had a belter with Kid (IIRC) right before the Rumble, which I think did make it to a Coliseum tape. Christ yeah, i remember my mind being blown when i got to see superstar vs superstar matches via WWF Mania. I had forgotten just how many squash matches there were back then. I guess the plus side was that matches like JJ Vs Bob Holly did seem like a big deal at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 On 12/28/2020 at 11:43 PM, bbabba said: Watching the Reigns V Owens cage match from this week's Smackdown reminds me of an annoyance of mine: Being able to win a cage match by going through the door. The moment a door is opened in a cage match and a competitor takes an unfeasibly long time to walk towards and out of the door instantly kills all suspension of disbelief and thus enjoyment of a match. The only benefit I can think of for the cage door being in play is the spot of slamming it into someone's head, but its done every cage match now to the point of having no meaning. The only exception to this I feel is Bret v Owen at Summerslam where they were proper fighting to get out. But I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 9, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2022 8 hours ago, Mark Impact said: For me this depends on the stipulation, and WWE have made a right old mess of things with how similar certain match types are. Streetlfight v no dq v hardcore for eg Rope breaks SHOULD count in a no dq match. The fall must take place in the ring and so breaking the plane of the ropes would prevent a legal pin or submission attempt. The referee would just not be able to force anyone to break a hold, even though they should try to via a count to keep the match going towards a finish, they just can't dq anyone for ignoring the count. 100% agreed on this - I get really annoyed when WWE do "it's No DQ, so rope breaks don't count!" as a spot in Triple Threat matches and the like. A rope break doesn't invalidate a pin or submission attempt because it's grounds for a DQ, it invalidates it because you're breaking the plane of the ring - the pin/submission hold is no longer valid, because one or both of the wrestlers is partially outside of the ring. It should be treated no differently to if you put someone in a submission completely outside of the ring. So if one wrestler has the other in a hold and they reach the ropes, it means that a submission gained during that hold wouldn't end the match, though because it's no DQ the referee can't force the break. As a rule, I always refereed No DQ matches, and teach other refs to referee them, the same as they would any other match. The referee should still be trying to enforce the rules, they're just not empowered to disqualify wrestlers for breaking them up. In the case of a rope break, I would still do a five count, still shout at them to break the hold, and maybe even get physically involved trying to force the break, I just wouldn't end the match for the wrestlers refusing to break. In terms of petty annoyances, I hate when commentators call something a "deadlift German suplex", or "deadlift" anything. Because in kayfabe terms, every German suplex is a deadlift! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Statto Posted January 9, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2022 40 minutes ago, BomberPat said: So if one wrestler has the other in a hold and they reach the ropes, it means that a submission gained during that hold wouldn't end the match, though because it's no DQ the referee can't force the break. This reminds me of one of my big pet hates - pulling the opponent back out of the ropes and that somehow invalidating the fact they had got there in the first place. Kurt Angle matches used to be dreadful for it - the ref would be up to 3 or 4 in the count to break the hold, Kurt would drag them back and they'd just carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jesse Posted January 9, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 9, 2022 5 hours ago, BomberPat said: In terms of petty annoyances, I hate when commentators call something a "deadlift German suplex", or "deadlift" anything. Because in kayfabe terms, every German suplex is a deadlift! Being petty about a petty annoyance here, but (as I understand it) in a standard German Suplex you're angling your body and using a lower centre of gravity to take your opponent over your head, similar to how a legit hip toss is about using your body as leverage, rather than brute strength. In a deadlift german suplex you're stopping partway through the lift, killing that momentum, then without lowering your opponent proceeding with the suplex, turning it into a display of your strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 I hate deadlift stuff in general. It's just highlights the cooperative nature of wrestling so that one person can get over as strong. Crap. As for the rope break discussion, what happens (kayfabe wise) if its a No DQ match, the person in the submission isn't submitting and the wrestler locking in the submission isn't breaking? Does the referee call in more referees, agents, wrestlers or whatever until they can break the hold and the match continues? Does the referee call it because the wrestler in the hold can't defend themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshC Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 On 12/28/2020 at 1:54 PM, garynysmon said: In the same way there's nothing wrong with the Lou Thesz press etc. Whenever I see someone perform a "cutter" I just think of DDP and a Diamond Cutter, for instance. I don't know why it isn't just called the Diamond Cutter still, Diamond Cutter makes sense as a standalone term, for starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted January 10, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted January 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Statto said: This reminds me of one of my big pet hates - pulling the opponent back out of the ropes and that somehow invalidating the fact they had got there in the first place. Kurt Angle matches used to be dreadful for it - the ref would be up to 3 or 4 in the count to break the hold, Kurt would drag them back and they'd just carry on. Don’t get me started. As a kid I could never understand why Bret was made to stay in the crossface chicken wing for three weeks after he’d already reached the rope. Earl just stood there and waited like the rope meant nothing. One of many reasons the match (and result) scarred me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 On 1/12/2021 at 11:52 AM, IronSheik said: Credit to the Hitman here, this is fucking world class selling. The way he jars his body and sells his face and neck makes the impact looks absolutely brizutal. 👌10 out of 10. I always remember Savio Vega doing a great sell of it too. He'd grab his throat like Austin just closed his windpipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffbag Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 not really a petty one, just a general annoyance. People who buy front row seats..then stand up blocking the view for everyone behind them This weeks AEW dynamite had a walking quality street wrapper stood up for virtually all the page-danielson match and she wasnt even on the hard cam side. Her "friend" didnt look much better either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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