The AEW Wednesday Night Dynamite Thread

[Snitsky's back acne]

2 hours ago, iPumaPants said:

It's the worst thing about modern wrestling. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should.

 

'I had to put my ego aside and do what was right for my career and the company. I had to stop doing all the things I could do' - The Undertaker [paraphrased].

Can you imagine if peak-1991 Undertaker was doing leapfrogs and dives out of the ring just because he could?
 

[tiger_rick]

Yet, curiously, the same people run that company and don't understand that.

[wordsfromlee]

18 minutes ago, Yakashi said:

They’re still making a tv show for their BTE audience. That audience knows it’s fake and, in general, just want to see moves and flips. It takes a true master to keep a face/heel divide alive with an audience like that. Most of the heels (including Jericho) are still doing a lot of stuff they know they will be cheered for. 

I'm not so sure about Jericho. He's one of the few heels these days that tries to shut down the cheers he gets by insulting the crowd etc.

[Snitsky's back acne]

I HATE fans who go 'but I think [insert heel name here] is so good I just have to cheer them'.
No, dumb fuck, if you are truly a fan of the heel then boo them! Do you think they WANT you to cheer them when they are a heel? No! 
You're not 'cool' for cheering them. You're not 'showing your support'. You're being a dick.  Stop fucking doing it.
'Well I can cheer for who I want!' - yes. Yes you can, but I can also call you a dick for cheering a heel that you like because that is NOT what they want you to do!
 

[Yakashi]

16 minutes ago, wordsfromlee said:

I'm not so sure about Jericho. He's one of the few heels these days that tries to shut down the cheers he gets by insulting the crowd etc.

Chris Jericho is a comedy heel. There is absolutely no way he is creating those skits thinking people will boo them. He’s not an idiot. 

[iPumaPants]

1 hour ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

'I had to put my ego aside and do what was right for my career and the company. I had to stop doing all the things I could do' - The Undertaker [paraphrased].

Can you imagine if peak-1991 Undertaker was doing leapfrogs and dives out of the ring just because he could?
 

This is exactly it. But I refuse to believe that Billy Gunn, Dean Malenko or Arn Anderson (he's an agent for AEW, right?) don't understand wrestling somewhere near to how UT does. 

I was talking to some friends about this recently, and it ties in with the commentary being absolutely shocking at times (mostly because of JR). If this is a result of people being given completely free rein to do as they want, say as they want, etc, it doesn't work and Cody or Tony Khan or someone needs to realise soon. The commentators don't know the rules for the AEW tag matches, the referees don't know what's going on, and the matches are now just looking like carbon copies of the one before it, because no-one is telling anyone anything. 

I love AEW, as a product, but it's those things that I see as little, easy to fix things, that are becoming big things and putting me off the whole thing. 

[Snitsky's back acne]

7 minutes ago, iPumaPants said:

This is exactly it. But I refuse to believe that Billy Gunn, Dean Malenko or Arn Anderson (he's an agent for AEW, right?) don't understand wrestling somewhere near to how UT does. 
 

Oh me too, but either they are saying these things and they are falling on deaf ears or they are just keeping quiet and collecting a hefty pay cheque.
I have a feeling there is a little bit of a 'well we know better, Grandad' attitude within AEW - I have no particular basis for this it's just a feeling - and that the lack of having anyone to answer to combined with earning more money than any of them will have made in their entire lives [Jimmy fucking Havoc is apparently on a 6 figure deal!! Six fucking figures!!! Jimmy Havoc!!!) is bringing out the worst in some people.
AEW needs to find a balance between being the apparent authoritarian dictatorship that WWE appears to be in regards to controlling what talent does, and the totally free reign 'Do what you want, guys!' attitude they seem to have at the moment. 

[iPumaPants]

4 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Oh me too, but either they are saying these things and they are falling on deaf ears or they are just keeping quiet and collecting a hefty pay cheque.
I have a feeling there is a little bit of a 'well we know better, Grandad' attitude within AEW - I have no particular basis for this it's just a feeling - and that the lack of having anyone to answer to combined with earning more money than any of them will have made in their entire lives [Jimmy fucking Havoc is apparently on a 6 figure deal!! Six fucking figures!!! Jimmy Havoc!!!) is bringing out the worst in some people.
AEW needs to find a balance between being the apparent authoritarian dictatorship that WWE appears to be in regards to controlling what talent does, and the totally free reign 'Do what you want, guys!' attitude they seem to have at the moment. 

I've befriended a few UK wrestlers, and even they've said, backstage at independant shows people try to not do the same spots, repeat different moves etc. A company the size of AEW, regardless of what they're getting paid (although someone got robbed paying Havoc that much - he's absolute shit), should be able to get the message across that 4 over the top rope dives in the first match can't be followed by 2 in the 2nd, 3 in the 4th and 1 in the main event. It's not rocket science. 

IF the penny does drop, and Tony Khan realises that it's all being shit on online (because he's clearly as much a message board fan as we are), then these agents who have sat by and let it all happen could lose their jobs, and then what? If they aren't being listened to, they need some level of authority to reprimand the guys and girls for the shit they pull. 

I completely agree with your last statement. That balance, I think, is easy to find. Moxley has freedom, as does Jericho. They're over as fuck. Leave them to it until something isn't feeling right. But have a say in what happens. Don't destroy the impact of a 450 splash finish by having someone kick out of a 630 earlier in the night. How can anyone buy Penta's piledriver as a finish when people are kicking out of springboard Canadian Destroyers? It's just soul crushingly baffling.

[Snitsky's back acne]

14 minutes ago, iPumaPants said:

I've befriended a few UK wrestlers, and even they've said, backstage at independant shows people try to not do the same spots, repeat different moves etc. A company the size of AEW, regardless of what they're getting paid (although someone got robbed paying Havoc that much - he's absolute shit), should be able to get the message across that 4 over the top rope dives in the first match can't be followed by 2 in the 2nd, 3 in the 4th and 1 in the main event. It's not rocket science. 

IF the penny does drop, and Tony Khan realises that it's all being shit on online (because he's clearly as much a message board fan as we are), then these agents who have sat by and let it all happen could lose their jobs, and then what? If they aren't being listened to, they need some level of authority to reprimand the guys and girls for the shit they pull. 

I completely agree with your last statement. That balance, I think, is easy to find. Moxley has freedom, as does Jericho. They're over as fuck. Leave them to it until something isn't feeling right. But have a say in what happens. Don't destroy the impact of a 450 splash finish by having someone kick out of a 630 earlier in the night. How can anyone buy Penta's piledriver as a finish when people are kicking out of springboard Canadian Destroyers? It's just soul crushingly baffling.

I think it was Cornette who, for all his criticism, said 'People in the wrestling business are afraid to say 'no' anymore' - whether it be saying no to doing something stupid like the dick-flip for fear of being branded as 'that' person who doesn't want to 'play along' or a promoter saying no to wrestlers doing exactly what they want.
I go back to Jericho having to call a meeting to tell the wrestlers how to work tag matches and getting the response 'well, lucha rules...'
No. You're not in Mexico. You're in the US. A veteran with decades of experience on worldwide TV is telling you something. Shut up and listen. You may never have been told 'no' before but you're being told 'no' now. 
I can't see Omega or the Bucks saying 'no' to anything - particularly as they are three of the worst culprits in the 'do all your shit every match/have a WAY longer match than you need to have/get yourself over' club.
Tony Khan sadly just seems to be another money-mark, happy to be in the wrestling business and wanting to be seen as the smiley, millennial alternative to Vince McMahon so there's no way he's saying no to anything [Jimmy Havoc's 6 figure deal is the prime example - anyone else would have gone '6 figures!? FUCK no!!... seriously though, 6 fucking figures!!!!]

[GeronimoJacksBeard]

I guess Jimmy can finally afford to move out of his Mums gaff now then.

[Merzbow]

If he wants me as a fan he should use that dosh to buy her a car then tweet it at Will.

[simonworden]

On 12/13/2019 at 7:10 PM, RedRooster said:

You may be right, there’s every chance I’m misremembering. 

To clarify I was right he says he is contractually obligated to have one more match, not a title match. 

 

 

[BomberPat]

16 hours ago, HarmonicGenerator said:

PAC is the only heel who makes his flips and dives feel heelish. There’s a sense of him ... not showing off, exactly, but demonstrating that he’s bloody athletic and you’re all twats for not considering him the best in the world. And that he’s trying to hurt his opponent with them - Black Arrow, as impressive as it is (it’s been over a decade and my brain still can’t process how he twists and flips like that), into the submission, looks painful to be on the other end of. He’s a bastard, in other words, and the best heel they have.

With PAC a lot of the time it's as simple as slowing down. He rarely hits a big flippy move "out of nowhere". He takes his time standing up on the top rope, allowing any positive crowd reaction to dissipate, then hits it. 

Someone said, a long time ago, that the only difference between working face and working heel is that a face speeds up while a heel slows down. It's about controlling the pace of the match, and PAC does it better than anyone. That he does it without letting his level of ability effectively turn him face is a testament to how good he is.

[Snitsky's back acne]

10 hours ago, GeronimoJacksBeard said:

I guess Jimmy can finally afford to move out of his Mums gaff now then.

...and join a gym.

[Accident Prone]

16 hours ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

I HATE fans who go 'but I think [insert heel name here] is so good I just have to cheer them'.
No, dumb fuck, if you are truly a fan of the heel then boo them! Do you think they WANT you to cheer them when they are a heel? No! 
You're not 'cool' for cheering them. You're not 'showing your support'. You're being a dick.  Stop fucking doing it.
'Well I can cheer for who I want!' - yes. Yes you can, but I can also call you a dick for cheering a heel that you like because that is NOT what they want you to do!
 

I think this comes down to a lot of fans these days thinking that they're mates with the wrestlers just because they chat with them at the merch table before slapping down 20 quid for a t-shirt. For example, Chris Brookes is a heel at most promotions but he gets loads of cheers because most of the building see him as their mate and not the dastardly bad guy that he is portraying.

This is not a slant on Brookes, BTW, He's just playing the game and it's going really well for him, and I too am a big fan of his. But I'm also an adult who knows that he's a professional wrestler who's just hustling to sell his wide array of extremely marketable merchandise.