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The AEW Wednesday Night Dynamite Thread

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On 12/13/2019 at 7:10 PM, RedRooster said:

You may be right, there’s every chance I’m misremembering. 

To clarify I was right he says he is contractually obligated to have one more match, not a title match. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, HarmonicGenerator said:

PAC is the only heel who makes his flips and dives feel heelish. There’s a sense of him ... not showing off, exactly, but demonstrating that he’s bloody athletic and you’re all twats for not considering him the best in the world. And that he’s trying to hurt his opponent with them - Black Arrow, as impressive as it is (it’s been over a decade and my brain still can’t process how he twists and flips like that), into the submission, looks painful to be on the other end of. He’s a bastard, in other words, and the best heel they have.

With PAC a lot of the time it's as simple as slowing down. He rarely hits a big flippy move "out of nowhere". He takes his time standing up on the top rope, allowing any positive crowd reaction to dissipate, then hits it. 

Someone said, a long time ago, that the only difference between working face and working heel is that a face speeds up while a heel slows down. It's about controlling the pace of the match, and PAC does it better than anyone. That he does it without letting his level of ability effectively turn him face is a testament to how good he is.

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16 hours ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

I HATE fans who go 'but I think [insert heel name here] is so good I just have to cheer them'.
No, dumb fuck, if you are truly a fan of the heel then boo them! Do you think they WANT you to cheer them when they are a heel? No! 
You're not 'cool' for cheering them. You're not 'showing your support'. You're being a dick.  Stop fucking doing it.
'Well I can cheer for who I want!' - yes. Yes you can, but I can also call you a dick for cheering a heel that you like because that is NOT what they want you to do!
 

I think this comes down to a lot of fans these days thinking that they're mates with the wrestlers just because they chat with them at the merch table before slapping down 20 quid for a t-shirt. For example, Chris Brookes is a heel at most promotions but he gets loads of cheers because most of the building see him as their mate and not the dastardly bad guy that he is portraying.

This is not a slant on Brookes, BTW, He's just playing the game and it's going really well for him, and I too am a big fan of his. But I'm also an adult who knows that he's a professional wrestler who's just hustling to sell his wide array of extremely marketable merchandise.

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That sort of thing does really annoy me. The show I was at on Saturday had people doing dueling chants in a match with a clear face/heel divide, either because that's how crowds behave these days, or because they were cheering for the one they recognised, irrelevant of her work in the match itself. 

I've had this conversation with promoters, and they tend to follow the line that punters can, and should, cheer or boo for whoever they want, and that if you try and dictate it to them, you're closing off opportunities for yourself - that Steve Austin was never supposed to be cheered, and so on. But I think there's a difference between a groundswell of support for a performer, and crowds/individuals being contrarian and cheering for someone who's clearly working heel. That said, a better class of heel would know how to turn even that crowd against them.

 

It's harder on the indies, though. Most heels still want to be able to sell merch after the show, so they can't make the crowd genuinely hate them. There might be inconsistencies in whether the wrestler in general works face or heel in different promotions - I remember at the first Wrestle Queendom, Charlie Morgan being the obvious babyface hero in the main event, but initially getting a smattering of boos from a section of the audience because she worked heel in PROGRESS. There's also the thing with indie wrestling where people are as likely to go because their favourite wrestler is booked as because they follow that promotion specifically - and if you've traveled to a show to see one wrestler, you're probably going to cheer for them even if they're working heel.

It's annoying, because honestly booing a great heel is so much more fun than cheering for them anyway. It's just such an over the top panto reaction, and great fun to indulge in.

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Joey Janela needs punted off TV as soon as they can. Everything about him screams all that's wrong with the indies. Shite look, shite gimmick, shite ring gear, shite in the ring.

Everything about him reminds me of Z-Barr from the old CZW days. 

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6 minutes ago, Jonny Vegas said:

Joey Janela needs punted off TV as soon as they can. Everything about him screams all that's wrong with the indies. Shite look, shite gimmick, shite ring gear, shite in the ring.

Everything about him reminds me of Z-Barr from the old CZW days. 

Agreed.

How on earth are we meant to believe that he is a threat to anyone.

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11 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

- that Steve Austin was never supposed to be cheered, and so on.

Christ, if today's promoters think this, no wonder things are all to cock. Stone Cold worked at 100% a face's pace, with tons of fire and always showing out.

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3 minutes ago, The King of Old School said:

Agreed.

How on earth are we meant to believe that he is a threat to anyone.

In fairness, he looks like having unprotected sex with him would pose a considerable risk to people.

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17 minutes ago, CavemanLynn said:

Christ, if today's promoters think this, no wonder things are all to cock. Stone Cold worked at 100% a face's pace, with tons of fire and always showing out.

In fairness, there was a point where he started getting cheers while still more explicitly working heel, but you're absolutely right.

Too many people today view "face and heel" as whether the crowd are cheering or booing, rather than explicit roles within the structure of a wrestling match. It worries me when Triple H or Cody Rhodes talk about how the face and heel roles don't really exist any more - Triple H once said that people should stop calling for Roman Reigns to turn heel because if they're booing him, then he's already a heel to them, and even as a corporate non-answer I just found it infuriating. 

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50 minutes ago, Jonny Vegas said:

Joey Janela needs punted off TV as soon as they can. Everything about him screams all that's wrong with the indies. Shite look, shite gimmick, shite ring gear, shite in the ring.

Everything about him reminds me of Z-Barr from the old CZW days. 

Joey would absolutely take that Z-Barr comment as a compliment seeing as he's a massive fan of that CZW heyday.

I've got a lot of time for Joey, as he injected a lot of panache and creativity into a stale North American indy scene and I find him entertaining in general, but I can see how some can be easily turned off by him and he for sure isn't being used correctly by AEW.

It's not like he's there by accident though. He's gets bigged up by everyone that he works with, especially key people in AEW's fold, so he's doing something right, I just think they haven't found a way to properly present him on a bigger stage to a mainstream audience.

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1 hour ago, The King of Old School said:

Agreed.

How on earth are we meant to believe that he is a threat to anyone.

He looks about 50x more threatening than Havoc. Not saying much, but it's something.

Janela's appeal/threat is in his do-anything-to-win, daredevil style, no? I quite enjoy his work, but he's not the best, that's for sure.

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