Vice: Dark Side of the Ring

[Stylin_and_Profilin]

Have to say these have been really good. Pretty balanced and objective too which i didn't think they would be.

Going slightly off on a tangent, how does it work for the documentary makes using archived WWE footage? Is it as simple as once they pay the fee(s) to use licensed material they can just fit it around their own narrative? Wouldn't have thought they would allow any of their official stock footage to be used on stuff like this, particularly the stuff that was a bit more 'nudge nudge, wink wink' like the Snuka and Moolah episodes.

Favourite episode for me woul be the Brawl For All purely because i missed it at time it originally aired and was always very curious especially with all the urban myths that go with it. Dino Bravo one was also very interesting as for some reason, despite reading (and assuming) i'd read all the dirt, rumours and internet gossip over the years i can honestly say hand on heart i had never heard the theory or background story they he died in an alleged mafia hit.

 

[DCW]

Fair play to Martha for firstly simply managing to survive such an awful thing, but then going on to raise two well adjusted kids and have a great career herself. Plus setting up the Owen Hart foundation all while taking on Vince & the WWF in the legal system. It's actually sickening the lies WWF and some of the Hart's spread about her. I'd never seen footage of that presser either, Vince acting the cunt with the reporter is ridiculous and in such bad taste at a time like that.

That line Taker had in network doc about "taking a bullet for Vince" if he had to is needless, I'd say Vince would be quick enough to push him in front of it anyway.

Edited May 20, 2020 by DCW

[Snitsky's back acne]

3 minutes ago, DCW said:

Fair play to Martha for firstly simply managing to survive such an awful thing, but then going on to raise two well adjusted kids and have a great career herself. Plus setting up the Owen Hart foundation all while taking on Vince & the WWF in the legal system. It's actually sickening the lies WWF and some of the Hart's spread about her. I'd never seen footage of that presser either, Vince acting the cunt with the reporter is ridiculous and in such bad taste at a time like that.

Yeah I thought she came across really well and not at all like had been put out there about her. 

[Factotum]

That Bret statement is not good. Besides the fact that he ignores the real point of the piece, the negligence of WWE, he then goes off on a weird tangent about Martha erasing Owen's legacy? Owen is still spoken about all the time. Nobody is erasing him at all. I don't see how going into a Hall Of Fame that is basically bollocks is any way to honour the man. His line about royalty checks is just cheap as well. Maybe try to connect personally rather than issue a defensive statement. 

On Jericho's Pod, Martha mentions that she's met a number of the grandchildren and they've all been respectful, so she's obviously not locking anything off with certain generations. But fucking hell, why would you want anything to do with a family that seems to have a sycophantic relationship with the company who caused your husband and fathers death and then didn't give two shits about you after? 

I love Bret, but I lose a little bit of respect for him every time he talks these days.

[Doctor Whos Next]

Stark stuff, as LWO Len shows us, there are always people who think that Martha is hateful for not letting Owen into the HOF, but  what will the HOF provide, exactly?   A WWE Network Playlist, an insincere acceptance speech, a gaudy ring, and the chance for a few thousand marks to play as Owen Hart in a 2K game.   Meanwhile Vince gets an ego boost and gets to tell himself that he’s alright really.   

As for a comparison, look at Bret, his major appearances in 2019 involved him getting thrown around by some idiot at the HOF, and getting a bit lost and falling down a hole in at AEW all under the auspices of “I used to be the Hitman, me.”    

Meanwhile, Martha has Parlayed Owen’s name into something to be proud of.   A charity that helps people.   Their kids don’t have to sell his Hasbro’s on ebay, or go into the business, only for a heel on Raw wearing a fucking Blue Blazer mask in a promo to hype up an undercard on the pre-show on Stomping ground.  

Your legacy is not defined by having your name on a website.   It’s the memories that people have, and yes, his family (both sides), his fans and his friends in the business have wonderful memories that don’t need to be on a  three hour special between William Shatner getting the nod, and a five hour speech from Terry Taylor.    
 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Doctor Whos Next

[Guest]

With Bret being the Friend in the family, no wonder she has distanced herself. Very glad they seem to have a decent life and have grown up well adjusted and helping others. Some good has come of this, the family are the most important people , and he should never be in the HOF of a company who’s actions led to an unnecessary death against Their wishes 

[WyattSheepMask]

Just got round to watching the David Schultz episode. It didn’t disappoint in the slightest because Schultz is, predictably, full of shit.

”Herb would bring people in, and they’d say you need to do something with this kid. We’re beating on him and he’s just too tough”- yeah, course they did pal

Edited May 20, 2020 by WyattSheepMask

[Hannibal Scorch]

As sad as the episode is, Martha and His kids did an amazing job celebrating Owen, the man. Yeah, we all knew him as a great Wrestler but he just seemed like a great guy. I thought it was a wonderful episode about the most tragic circumstances. 

[SaitoRyo]

People were clearly interested this week because the show averaged 350K viewers, best of the season. 

 

[chokeout]

14 hours ago, Stylin_and_Profilin said:

Have to say these have been really good. Pretty balanced and objective too which i didn't think they would be.

Going slightly off on a tangent, how does it work for the documentary makes using archived WWE footage? Is it as simple as once they pay the fee(s) to use licensed material they can just fit it around their own narrative? Wouldn't have thought they would allow any of their official stock footage to be used on stuff like this, particularly the stuff that was a bit more 'nudge nudge, wink wink' like the Snuka and Moolah episodes.

 

 

American copyright law has quite wonderful fair usage clauses which means you could happily use WWE footage without their consent in small sections throughout a documentary to support a wider narrative. My guess is that WWE didn't provide any of the footage featured ( the crowd shots from the Over The Edge PPV are obviously taken from a VHS rip) 

[BomberPat]

I haven't watched the show yet, and honestly I don't know if I'm going to be able to bring myself to. But I did listen to Martha Hart on Jericho's podcast.

She talks about her favourite Owen Hart matches, and mentions his matches with Bret, with Hiroshi Hase in NJPW, and with Makhan Singh in Stampede, and talked favourably about Owen's time in NJPW. That's not the answer of someone who hates wrestling and wanted Owen out of it. It's someone who hates the WWF, because their negligence killed her husband and then they denied all culpability. WWE have just done a great job of convincing the world that WWE and Wrestling are interchangeable terms.

As for Bret, it's a shame that he sees things that way, but he's never really been one to have his priorities in the right place anyway. And as far as keeping distant from the Hart Family, can you fucking blame them? Any wrestling biography that goes anywhere near that family - let alone the mad shit in the books written by members of the family - should be enough to make you want to put some distance between them and you; a complete nest of sex criminals, animal abusers, drug addicts and lunatics, with everything ever recounted about them being a madcap wrestling family sounding like something out of a true crime series or an airport book about surviving an abusive childhood in any other context.

 

As for wanting to celebrate Owen's career? I just put his name into the WWE Network, it came back with 58 PPVs and 99+ matches. Outside of WWE, I can watch him in NJPW, I can go on YouTube and watch him on World of Sport, I can watch him vs Colonel Brody on an old Eurosport wrestling show, I can watch him in Stampede, I can watch his match against Canek in Mexico. We've never had more Owen Hart content to choose from.

And if people want his legacy respected, well, there's the Owen Hart Foundation right there. Bung them a few quid, it'll achieve more good than a WWE check-box exercise ever will.

[danlewis]

Yeah, “If only there was a way to celebrate him” when there’s an actual foundation in his name is quite something.

[stewdogg]

Is the fascination with wrestlers being in the WWE Hall of Fame some sort of 'highest honour' they can achieve? Most people, in life, not just wresting are extremely egotistical, so I can see that if they think that it is the highest honour they can achieve, it is the highest honour that everyone can achieve.

Bret and his entire family are so wrestling orientated and will let anything go for the recognition they can receive out of it. Quite rightly Martha is having none of it.

I can imagine this program being a tough watch, I'll always remember Mark Henry and I think Mick Foley saying how much Owen loved his family and was such a family man. It's still fairly crushing now. 

[Snitsky's back acne]

36 minutes ago, Rapey Eyes said:

Is the fascination with wrestlers being in the WWE Hall of Fame some sort of 'highest honour' they can achieve?

It's been marketed as such yes - and think about it, you get the opportunity to have a large crowd listen to you tell stories of you career/life and hang out with old friends while getting a decent pay day and a flattering video package. In theory, why WOULDN'T a performer want that?
I think the message that 'Owen loved his family = Owen hated wrestling' is often referenced and that's wrong too in my opinion. He loved both. It's just he loved his family far more. His job was a means to an end. He did it while he could but it wasn't his world. He had his priorities right. 

Also, have just heard that the only reason there has never been any Owen Hart merch was because Martha assumed it would all be WWE related.
Jericho and Dark Side of the Ring hooked her up with a company that have produced Owen Hart shirts with all proceeds going to the foundation so, yeah, Martha is certainly NOT doing anything to erase his wrestling legacy it's just that she, naturally, is limited in what she CAN do because so much of his stuff is owned/trademarked by WWE.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Snitsky's back acne

[Cod Eye]

Just on the subject of most of his work being owed by the WWE. I've no idea if it would work in the same way with wrestling, but in the US there is a law that means any work that has been produced for a production company/distributor(in the movies and music for sure) can be claimed back by the contents creator after 35 years. Two high profile cases that have been set in motion fairly recently is the rights to the first Friday the 13th film, where writer Victor Miller has won his case to take back the rights to the title and characters, and the family of Wes Craven trying the same with the Elm St franchise. 

Could this apply to wrestlers and their work too(as is, could they get the rights to their matches back after 35)? I know the WWE would claim the matches were on a "work for hire" basis, but as we know they only sign talent as Independent Contractors(the same argument Miller successfully made regarding his work on Friday the 13th). It's not important in the grand scheme of things, but I was thinking on the lines of Martha Hart claiming the rights to sell and market Owens body of work in benefit of the Owen Hart Foundation?