Billie Kay and Mickie James released (+ others)

[Loki]

Stepping back from the individual releases - 

As has been mentioned, one of the reasons there's been so many releases this year is that WWE have been stockpiling a crazy amount of wrestlers, way too many for tv.  And it's not even as a counter for AEW... there's people being released who have been in the WWE system for YEARS... literally 5+ years in some cases, without ever making any sort of an impact on business.

Tino Sabatelli was in WWE for 7 years... that's the same amount of time basically as The Rock's entire first run.  Longer than Warrior, longer than MVP in his first run.  If you've been in the WWE system for, say, 4 years you're either ready or you're not.  And if not, probably better you go off and find a character yourself and then come back.

The US wrestling scene is probably as big as it's been since the heyday of WWF/WCW/ECW, it's not like WWE is the only employer in town now.  Frankly I think it's healthier if talent cycles in and out of the main companies rather than festering.

What I'm still waiting for is WWE to hire some AEW rejects, which means AEW actually releasing anyone.  As I think @Davidsaid, if the recently released WWE talent are marketable enough, AEW should make some room on their roster, release some people who aren't working.

[DEF]

1 hour ago, David said:

And you call them "talented people." If they're indeed talented they'll find their way to a company that manages to recognise that talent and place them in their rightful position to actually play a part in generating some profit. And I'll be more than happy to see them prove WWE wrong in letting them go.

.

Surely that's where some of this frustration comes from for fans. Even if you ignore its an utterly shitty thing to do to people when the company is making more than enough to warrant keeping them when they have a million hours of TV to book (although you shouldn't, fuck them) They clear as day have given up developing talent properly. I don't know all the names on the list as I pretty much stopped watching a year ago and stopped paying for it at all after the Ashley abuse came to light.

But 'Oweing someone a living' is utter bollocks if they are blatantly mismanaged and underutilised. As I say I've not watched but when I did the way they treated Keith Lee was utterly perplexing. But ignoring fan complaints of how talent is handled even, they are doing an utterly incompetent job of making money with the 100 odd talent they employ and have released this year.

The talents job is to do the best they can with what they are given and it's on WWE to give them something to work with and make money from. Vince's utter apathy and/or contempt for anything that he didn't think of or aligned with his narrow view of the product is actively hurting not only the onscreen product but how much the company makes.

There is no way in hell they are making as much money on NXT merch now for instance than they were three or four years ago. They are chasing the big money and getting it but at the detriment to other aspects of the business. I don't for a second think that if the company was booked well and the audience was bigger/more attracted to it then they would be getting the same money. It would thrive if they utilised all the assets they have and actually cared about the product they put out. Yes you can argue they are thriving because they are getting the most they ever have but the point is that they quite obviously get so much more. They should be doing record numbers in all aspects of the business not just the ones they get from TV rights fees and Saudi Blood money (ewww)

Case in point their declining ticket sales. Vince has gone on record as saying maybe we aren't a touring live show any more to paper over the fact there's no reason they couldn't have that money other than people don't want to pay for that product like they used to. 

 

[David]

1 hour ago, wordsfromlee said:

You can tell when David has replied to a thread as my phone thinks it's a long read and asks if I want to add it to my reading list and tells me the estimated time it will take to read it.

I certainly hope you added it and read it while taking notes on your commute home. 

38 minutes ago, Chili said:

It's more because like David, you sound like a arse with your hardline tory, thems the breaks Arnold Rimmer up the lickity split bollocks, that feels mass releases after record profits is just the way of the world and we shouldn't think this company, who run blood money shows and will happily have people relocate their families and then sack em off (does anyone think of from the perspective of being IN the states) shouldn't be criticised because its just the way it is. They're also obviously a pack or arseholes. 

Might as well just say 'man up.' 

No, you're allowing your hard-on for the Tory's and your self-righteous rage to blind you to what I'm actually saying. I've clarified that no one likes to see anyone lose their job, be it wrestlers, bin men, office workers, or anyone else. 

But the simple fact is that a billion dollar company isn't going to hold on to staff that they obviously feel aren't contributing. And yes, I know they posted profits, but it doesn't work as simply as saying "we're in profit, let's keep everyone employed!"

There's going to be a talent budget, and those in charge of that department will have to work within it. There may be wrestlers who are on decent enough contracts but who have taken the step up and become more valuable to the company. Do they not deserve better terms to reflect the more prominent role they play in the company? That has to be reflected in the budget.

It's a thoroughly shitty situation, but it happens. There's people getting laid off every day, and every one of them deserve sympathy. 

My argument wasn't that it wasn't a shame for someone to lose their source of income, my argument was that while it may be a shame, if they're just not good enough to make the grade with the tier 1 company in WWE, and aren't attracting interest from the tier 2 companies like AEW, TNA or ROH, then it could be that they're simply not good enough to earn a living in that field at the moment. It's a competitive industry and not everyone is good enough.

Again, very much a shame, and no one likes to see it happen. 

[Devon Malcolm]

Please don't discourage @stewdogg from posting in this thread, it keeps him away from the film and football threads.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Devon Malcolm

[DavidB6937]

The perception of 'talented' is a difficult one when it comes to wrestlers. Take AJ Styles for example - you knew he had something on the Indies and everyone loved his athleticism etc but you also knew he was pretty awkward as a character and not comfortable on the mic etc. The more he worked the world, especially Japan, and he came together as the more complete package that we see today.

Even if you go back to someone like The Rock - the transformation from audiences wanting him to die to now being a bloke that a lot of people want to be President is pretty fucking mad. But there are so many different variables in making the most of that talent. Sometimes it's on the individual to push their own ideas, while other times they have untapped potential that they desperately need someone else to mould into something more successful. As we've seen with someone like Bray Wyatt - freedom of creativity can be a blessing and a curse.

Of course it can go completely the other way with talented people getting bogged down in shit booking and not being able to show what they're capable of. Wrestling is as much of a team thing as something like football. You can't succeed completely on your own. Surround yourself with the right people and a middling talent could become something far greater. It's clear that WWE can be great for some people but for others it's a death sentence. It must be so tough for these people knowing so much of their potential is held in the hands of others.

The worst thing about WWE is their inability to change. AEW mostly seem willing to take on board feedback and are willing to course correct along the way when something isn't working. Vince will either force someone down your throat or fire them. There's rarely any middle ground with him.

[Keith Houchen]

Got to laugh that WWE releasing some employees who will probably have to find a new career is the line in the sand. Sure, the raping, drug abuse, bullying, hazing, murdering, misogyny, blood money and exploitation of employees can slide but how dare they not consider where Flip McPlaystations next meal is coming from?

And you’ll still give them your money every month, but if they keep this up you’ll have to reconsider after hatewatching for another year. Total frauds. If you haven’t stopped giving them your cash already, nothing will make you stop. And while they’re raking it in, fuck all will change, and you’re why. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Keith Houchen

[The Dart]

According to Meltzer at least 5, probably more were due to refusing to get the vaccine.

Dorado & Metalik both asked to be released.

I read somewhere else that Eva Marie had only signed a short term deal anyway, a year maybe and wasn't expected to stay longer than that.

[Jazzy G]

32 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

I'm calling it now - give it ten years and there'll be no human wrestlers in WWE just holograms.

No injuries, no substance issues they have to pay for, no paying for maternity leave (you know Vince hates that), no people questioning your bat-shit crazy decisions - just a bunch of holograms doing EXACTLY what Vince [who will by that time be a Krang-style brain in a synthetic body barking out orders to Bruce and John Laurinaitis) wants.

You heard it here first. 

He'll get Cole, Graves and Saxton to record a load of phonics and then get an AI to generate the commentary as well. "They say Sports Entertainment is too similar to a video game, eh? I'll show them."

[Guest]

The reason WWE 2K20 was shite is because half the team were developing a secret version. You've all been watching high-res Universe Mode for a while now.

[LCJ]

39 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Vince [who will by that time be a Krang-style brain in a synthetic body barking out orders to Bruce and John Laurinaitis) wants.

I’m thinking more Mr. Burns with his head in a jar.

[Keith Houchen]

20 minutes ago, David said:

There's going to be a talent budget, and those in charge of that department will have to work within it. There may be wrestlers who are on decent enough contracts but who have taken the step up and become more valuable to the company. Do they not deserve better terms to reflect the more prominent role they play in the company? That has to be reflected in the budget.

You’re a baseball man aren’t you? Remember how Sabremetrics came along and totally revolutionised the way teams were run? I really wouldn’t be surprised if Vince has some metrics running that the likes of us on here wouldn’t even consider. Things like google searches / network views for segments and uses that in consideration of who is value for money. Why keep 5 people employed when 3 get the same metrics for half the price. 
 

Maybe Vince could consult a leading sports data analysis on what to look for, does anyone know of any???

[69MeDon]

I'm not going to rehash stuff people have already said but I will say that a lot of the way the company operates now strikes me as short sighted. Yes, they are making money hand over fist right now. And if that's all they need to do because they're looking to sell, fine. But driving off your live audience, a trend of dwindling TV ratings (although, as someone else mentioned, they are up this year), an inability to make any new stars outside of those who have been around for donkey's years, and what is - to me - an absolute dogshit creative and production direction, all because financially, times are good right now, that is asking for trouble. Why are Fox or USA, when it comes time to talk about TV rights fees again, not going to be wondering why they're paying double or more for live programming than Turner is paying to AEW? You might say "WWE is a better known brand" but...so what? USA will still pay them loads because of the library but in terms of what they're getting paid solely for Raw, Smackdown and NXT? The suits at the TV networks would have to be negligent to not be asking questions about why they're paying all that money and getting total viewership numbers that are better, but at least in the case of Raw sometimes not that far away from a show like Dynamite. Not to mention how the strongest audience for WWE is these 50+ people who advertisers aren't that interested in.

To me, it's not a crazy thing to think that they could end up with a TV offer substantially below what they'd have been expecting prior to AEW launching, something which hits their share price and their revenues. "We're making money right now" is not a guarantee that you'll always make that money, especially in the context where you're no longer the only game in town.

I know it's different but in 1998, the people running WCW thought they were geniuses. "We're making money! Let's just keep doing what we're doing!" And then were out of business three years later.

But also: I don't know shit about shit so I could be talking shit.

Edited November 5, 2021 by 69MeDon

[King Coconut]

26 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Sure, the raping, drug abuse, bullying, hazing, murdering, misogyny, blood money and exploitation of employees

Oh, so Keith is alright with the racism, is he??!

[Keith Houchen]

3 minutes ago, King Coconut said:

Oh, so Keith is alright with the racism, is he??!

They did give Shelton Benjamin a long run with the IC belt, they even gave his dear old mum a job. 

[David]

22 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

You’re a baseball man aren’t you? Remember how Sabremetrics came along and totally revolutionised the way teams were run? I really wouldn’t be surprised if Vince has some metrics running that the likes of us on here wouldn’t even consider. Things like google searches / network views for segments and uses that in consideration of who is value for money. Why keep 5 people employed when 3 get the same metrics for half the price. 
 

Maybe Vince could consult a leading sports data analysis on what to look for, does anyone know of any???

Oh yeah, there'll be all manner of systems in place that us plebs know nothing about. Vince won't be getting rid of people based on the same factors they used ten or twenty years back. There'll be a lot of data that told him the individuals being released weren't making the cut.