Billie Kay and Mickie James released (+ others)

[stewdogg]

1 minute ago, gmoney said:

You know Jordynne Grace wasn't released and has never been employed by the WWE right? 

Nope don't know who she is. It was mentioned specifically in this thread so I guess someone is using it to make a point. 

[Hannibal Scorch]

3 minutes ago, stewdogg said:

 

So if your employer offered you a job, which meant you had to move to another part of the country and then decided a year later we don't want you anymore, that's life, don't whine about it would be your own response? And the reasoning is budget cuts due to your employee making more money then they had thought they would.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Hannibal Scorch

[DavidB6937]

stewdogg has been released from this topic.

[stewdogg]

Just now, Hannibal Scorch said:

So if your employer offered you a job, which meant you had to move to another part of the country and then decided a year later we don't want you anymore, that's life, don't whine about it would be your own response?

That's the way the cookie crumbles. If I was a self-employed contractor you have to take the rough with the smooth. I had a look who that Jordynne Grace is, I guess she could feel hard done by after ROH just released everyone. It was for business reasons, same as why the WWE are 'apparently' quoting.

[LaGoosh]

1 hour ago, David said:

I'm just saying, if they're not good enough for a 2nd tier company like ROH, AEW, or any of the other indie organisations to do whatever is needed to hire them, then are they really good enough for the top tier company to keep?

You're right, there are only so many available jobs in wrestling, and as such those jobs should be filled with the best talent. You didn't see AEW have any issue finding a spot for the likes of Punk or Bryan Danielson, did you? The reason for that is because they're legit top talents and worth the investment. 

If anyone let go was a legit top talent, or had the potential to be, they'd either have been retained by WWE, or will be snapped up by one of the other organisations.

WWE are a business, and if they deem those particular talents not to be worth keeping then they have every right to cut them. There not being enough jobs outside WWE isn't a reason for WWE to keep talent they don't think are up to the job.

If they're never seen again it perhaps just means that they weren't quite up to the job and need to move on to something else.

Sigh.

- Most of them are good enough for AEW, ROH, MLW, IMPACT, wherever. But there's only so many spots in any company. 

- if you can't see the difference between Punk and Bryan, two of the biggest stars in modern wrestling history, and these people I don't know what to tell you. These are not comparable situations.

- the fact that so many of the people released in the past few years are top tier or potential top tier talents is why there's so much discussion about it. If they were all shitarses no one would care.

- "WWE are a business, and if they deem those particular talents not to be worth keeping then they have every right to cut them. There not being enough jobs outside WWE isn't a reason for WWE to keep talent they don't think are up to the job." No one is arguing that WWE don't have the right to cut them. Literally fucking no one has said that. But anyone with empathy and more than two brain cells can see that while WWE has the right to fire people it's still shitty to fire a bunch of talented people in the name of budget cuts while making record profits and there own creatively bankrupt business practices ruining people's careers. But good to know you're on the side of the billion dollar corporation instead of those fucked over by it.

- "If they're never seen again it perhaps just means that they weren't quite up to the job and need to move on to something else." Or they lack job opportunities in an extremely crowded market with few places and need to pay their bills and feed their families. Pretty depressing that talented people have their dreams crushed so shareholders get a bit more money to add to their piles of gold. You're probably fine with it though.

[LaGoosh]

12 minutes ago, stewdogg said:

If you ran a company and you had no work would you keep people on the books, or would you and your shareholders pocket the savings?

I wouldn't fucking hire them in the first place.

[gmoney]

4 minutes ago, stewdogg said:

That's the way the cookie crumbles. If I was a self-employed contractor you have to take the rough with the smooth. I had a look who that Jordynne Grace is, I guess she could feel hard done by after ROH just released everyone. It was for business reasons, same as why the WWE are 'apparently' quoting.

Trying to work out who you looked up, because she wasn't under contract with ROH? I'm going to bow out here, because you seem a bit out of your depth. 

[Your Fight Site]

7 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

So if your employer offered you a job, which meant you had to move to another part of the country and then decided a year later we don't want you anymore, that's life, don't whine about it would be your own response? And the reasoning is budget cuts due to your employee making more money then they had thought they would.

Profitable companies still have budgets. If WWE have re-evaluated their spending and their performer wage bill is higher than their desired budget, then that’s their prerogative.

[The Gaffer]

8 minutes ago, stewdogg said:

That's the way the cookie crumbles. 

[LaGoosh]

6 minutes ago, Your Fight Site said:

Profitable companies still have budgets. If WWE have re-evaluated their spending and their performer wage bill is higher than their desired budget, then that’s their prerogative.

So if it happened to you, you'd be completely ok with it and wouldn't want any sympathy?

[Hannibal Scorch]

2 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

So if it happened to you, you'd be completely ok with it and wouldn't want any sympathy?

They have a desired budget. Of course he would understand while his boss is making millions there is no need to have him there. In fact, I am sure he would point the fact out to his boss and fire himself.

[wordsfromlee]

11 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

- Most of them are good enough for AEW, ROH, MLW, IMPACT, wherever. But there's only so many spots in any company. 

Exactly. You either bin off top level talent to replace with the newly released top level talent which doesn't negate the problem, or you get rid of some lower card workers to make room for them and end up with a roster full of upper mid carder/main event people which doesn't work. You need to have the different levels of talent on a roster.

[TheBurningRed]

13 minutes ago, gmoney said:

Trying to work out who you looked up, because she wasn't under contract with ROH? I'm going to bow out here, because you seem a bit out of your depth. 

The only thing I’ll defend stewdogg for in this thread is that I think maybe he meant her husband seeing as he’s just lost his job due to with the whole ROH thing. 

[David]

10 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

Most of them are good enough for AEW, ROH, MLW, IMPACT, wherever. But there's only so many spots in any company. 

If they're top talents they'll get picked up. Individuals come and go constantly when it comes to wrestling companies. It's not like football where there's a set window for signing talent. If someone in that group of releases from WWE is worth a slot, the organisation will find a place for them, be that through adjusting their budget or releasing someone on their roster who isn't quite working out.

12 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

if you can't see the difference between Punk and Bryan, two of the biggest stars in modern wrestling history, and these people I don't know what to tell you. These are not comparable situations.

Oh, I can see the difference. And so can the people running these companies. If anyone on this release list was a sure-fire star in the making or someone with bags of potential then I'm sure they'd get a job elsewhere. In that post of yours that I initially quoted, you said that "It's kind of heartbreaking seeing on Twitter all these people saying "they'll land on their feet" or "they'll be a star wherever they go" but where is there for any of them to go? AEW may take one or two of them, Impact has a limited budget and barely anyone watches it...what's left? MLW? The indie scene has no buzz, ROH is dead. My guess is we'll never see at least half these people ever again."

If they were good enough you wouldn't be talking about them like that. The truth is, a few years down the line? I doubt any of them that we never see again will be missed. They're just a number of many who gave it their best shot and it didn't work out. Which will prove WWE was right to cut them.

17 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

the fact that so many of the people released in the past few years are top tier or potential top tier talents is why there's so much discussion about it. If they were all shitarses no one would care.

Yes, but potential top tier talent in who's eyes? Yours? Mines? Other ticket-buying, network-subbing schmucks? As has been said elsewhere, this WWE lot have been around a while. Maybe they know what they're doing? And if they don't, then the potential top talent that they discard will be seen and snapped up by a more savvy organisation.

19 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

"WWE are a business, and if they deem those particular talents not to be worth keeping then they have every right to cut them. There not being enough jobs outside WWE isn't a reason for WWE to keep talent they don't think are up to the job." No one is arguing that WWE don't have the right to cut them. Literally fucking no one has said that. But anyone with empathy and more than two brain cells can see that while WWE has the right to fire people it's still shitty to fire a bunch of talented people in the name of budget cuts while making record profits and there own creatively bankrupt business practices ruining people's careers. But good to know you're on the side of the billion dollar corporation instead of those fucked over by it.

I'm on no one's "side," that's just how business works. Sure, the company is making a profit, but how many of those that were released played a part in that? A sales company may be making profits, but that doesn't mean that Kevin who sits in the corner and makes zero sales and has absolutely no effect on the bottom line should be kept in a job.

And you call them "talented people." If they're indeed talented they'll find their way to a company that manages to recognise that talent and place them in their rightful position to actually play a part in generating some profit. And I'll be more than happy to see them prove WWE wrong in letting them go.

People talk as if this isn't a billion-dollar company that exists, like most companies, to generate profit. It's not a charity. 

25 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

"If they're never seen again it perhaps just means that they weren't quite up to the job and need to move on to something else." Or they lack job opportunities in an extremely crowded market with few places and need to pay their bills and feed their families. Pretty depressing that talented people have their dreams crushed so shareholders get a bit more money to add to their piles of gold. You're probably fine with it though.

If they lack opportunities in an extremely crowded market then it means they weren't quite up to the job as things stand. There's limited slots and they weren't good enough to warrant getting one. They can either look to improve their skillset, move on to something new, or wait until the crowded market gets less crowded and the barrier to entry drops slightly.

I mean, what else would you have happen? WWE continue to pay them because they feel sorry for them? It doesn't work like that, unfortunately.

[Chili]

Thanks for that HAL 9000.