Jump to content

Wrestling #MeToo #SpeakingOut


Keith Houchen

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, AVM said:

I've now shared this on Twitter. Thanks for the encouragement. I was going to keep quiet but seeing the other allegations has made me quite angry TBH.  

Well done, mate. I hope that this helps you with what happened. It’s easy to downplay it as you say, but be proud of yourself. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, John Matrix said:

Thing is mate, i've been thinking about this a lot of the past couple of days, and whilst that particular slant on regulation was flawed and fuelled by self interest, it's not that bad an idea in principle. 

I'm so relieved to log on here to see talk of regulation, governing bodies etc, and I appreciate those things seem a million miles away, implausible perhaps at the present time, but that's exactly why they are so bloody necessary.  Every performer whose pledged to 'do better', every promoter who's changed up their management team who could have contained women anyway for all we know because we didnt know who the fuck they were in the first place, it's all bollocks, because there's no wider accountability or industry wide standard to adhere to.

 

Didn't Ming the Merciless look into Equity membership for wrestlers? As much as I detest the squeaky waxen paedo, that looks like a good way to go, if it's determined wrestlers are eligible. Trading name protection, insurance, wage support, incident reporting, etc, plus not directly affiliated with any wrestling promotion.

Maybe not for this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members

Yeah well done @AVM I bet there are a lot of people in the same boat as you who have blocked out what happened to them or dismissed it as ‘not as bad as other people’s experiences’. If there’s anything good to come out of all this (other than the scumbags abusers getting outed and hopefully facing some kind of consequences) it’s that people like yourself coming forward might give others the strength to do the same.

I’ve dipped in and out of this thread over the last day or so and it’s made for fucking grim reading. I never followed the UK scene so don’t know most of the names mentioned but it’s obvious that this type of vile behaviour is so ingrained. You hear stories over the years on shoot interviews and stuff but from seeing all these people coming forward, it’s clear we really don’t know the half of it. Wrestling is rife with sexual predators and nonces. 

Once again, guys like Chris B, Keith and others have been hitting the nail on the head page after page in this thread. I never expect much to change but it really needs to. At the very least, I’m glad that social media has provided a way for the victims to have their voices heard. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members
57 minutes ago, John Matrix said:

Thing is mate, i've been thinking about this a lot of the past couple of days, and whilst that particular slant on regulation was flawed and fuelled by self interest, it's not that bad an idea in principle

Definitely, and I think that was some people's argument at the time. It's just worth saying, even in the fatuous way as I did, what others were saying. That ultimately any sense of self governance should be treated with some skepticism and not accepted at face value as a total resolution. 

The person who was leading the initiative for a sort of "self manged internal governing body" no more than 10 years ago has just been accused of sexual misconduct with a minor amongst other things which, unless I'm mistaken, had happened before then.

Edited by Tommy!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, The Dart said:

Progress knew perfectly well he wasn't protecting his character, they're not that bloody stupid.  They just didn't want to acknowledge that their top star is a violent thug,  But, saying, he may have been protecting his character, like that somehow makes it OK.   Piss poor.  I wish the guy it happened to had gone public with it at the time.

The person from Progress Wrestling who wrote that mail to the assaulted fan is another childish mark who lost track of the real world. Should be ashamed of himself and quit this business.

’Protecting his character’ Un fucking believable how completely lost these wrestlers and promoters seem to be in their pro wrestling ‘logical’ cinematic bullshit. Like they live in an alternative universe. Losers.

One of your fans just got beat up by your talent. As real as it gets. Snap out of your fantasy life and take action. 
 

How can you condone. Wake the fuck up from your childish pro wrestling world.

Edited by LWOLeN
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’d be happy to help and be part of a conversation about what promotions/schools do now from this point forward. Haven’t worked in promoting since 2003 so not affiliated with anyone on the circuit now.

as an experienced film producer (HR and H&S would come under my job remit) I am the First port of call for any member of my cast and crew to come to if ever they feel something is wrong, inappropriate or bullying and it’s been my job to sort it out, talk to the people involved and make sure there’s a happy environment behind the camera.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Safeguarding. 

It seems like there has been significant absence of this in wrestling. It used to be the case with football, which let horrors like Barry Bennell run wild for years. I've worked as a teacher, in youth football and most recently in social services for the last 15 years. It seems that there is, from these stories about minors in particular, a complete lack of safeguarding for those under 18 accross wrestling. 

Four simple questions for all those working in wrestling in the UK (as I assume there is no-one who doesn't work with under 18s in any school or company):

1) Does everyone who works with you in any capacity have Enhanced DBS clearance? 

2) What is your under 18 safeguarding policy? 

3) Who is/are your designated safeguarding officer/s and what accredited training have they completed to attain this status? 

4) What is your procedure for reporting/disclosing and then investigating safeguarding concerns within your organisation? And how do you publicise this procedure to all those involved with your organisation? 

If a company is unable to provide a satisfactory answer to any of these questions - be they involved in wrestling, theatre, football or anything else involving under 18s - they should not be working with children in any way. 

Regarding the wider issue of countless stories of how women and other minority or vulnerable groups who work in wrestling are treated, there has to be a culture shift. The perpetrators should feel worse about committing the act, than the people they are abusing feel about sharing their experiences. With the mates culture in wrestling - typified by the Ospreay/Polyanna example - until people in positions of authority prioritise their legal responsibilities over loyalties to friends or associates - they should not attract a single penny from any wrestling fan. 

I agree that this is only tangentially attached to BLM, but I saw something Michael Johnson said a couple of weeks ago on that issue. If you are not directly standing against this, an active ally to those in positions of weakness who have suffered abuse, you are guilty. When, for example, Progress explain away or absolve themselves of any connection to Havoc or Ospreay's behaviour, they are guilty. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members
1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

Yep. It'll be bypassing half of it, disavowing half of it as "just wrestling", but painting Joey Ryan specifically as the devil.

More importantly, fuck the old cunt for monetising this in the first place.

"The dick flip guy" as he likes to call him, presumably Steven P New has told him to give them all "clever" nicknames or don't address them directly by name so they can't sue him for defamation, when he'd be best telling him to shut up about anything that isn't the history of wrestling. 

Edited by jazzygeofferz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have been reading this over the past few days......typing in my story, then deleting it because i don't want a load of people on a forum to call me a pussy or laugh at what happened because honestly not only did what i went through break my confidence but it also broke my love for the business for the longest time.

 

I was 13 when i started training in manchester, i lied about my age and later on i found out they knew i was lying they knew my real age the whole time. 
I was labelled a mark because i wanted to learn everything i could and being round those guys i saw on twc the night before was amazing for me, i was subject to having fully grown men que up laughing while they would pick me up and drop me on my head again and again and again. 
I thought i was gaining there respect and this is what you did when you wanted to become a wrestler, pay your dues ect but then i realised one day it was just me that was getting this treatment...... I would have fully grown men pick me up and spike me on my head and laugh the whole time doing it......

Then there was the time someone came up with the hillarious idea of picking me up for a tombstone but instead of hitting it shout tomb-BONE and rub there dicks in my face before dropping me on my head. 

i was sexually abused at the age of 4 and never had a good male role model in my life and these wrestlers that i was seriously looking up to were treating me this way but it was my dream to be there in that ring so i subjected myself to it again and again

then my final day of training happened there was a guy training there called jack he was from liverpool and my final day of training i had him hit me with a move landing me on my head and knocking me out and no one came to my aid..........then we were on the mats listening to dave i think it was speaking and Jack lit up a cigarette and put it out on my back......i ran out of the session burst into tears and never came back. 

what upset me the most about it all was i was so dedicated and yeah i was young and probably abit markish but my heart was in the right place. not 1 person stood up that final day and said anything to jack.....he wasn't kicked out or reprimanded at all.

 

i used to have sanjay bagga ring me up while he was in his gym at home just to talk to me about my training and alex shane (alex took me under his wing and sanjay hated him) but he would say weird things to me but i never said anything because i didn't want to piss off a promoter who could go round and tell everyone not too book me.

 

i don't know what else to say apart from i know how bad this industry can be and the people in it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Kfogg1991 said:

i have been reading this over the past few days......typing in my story, then deleting it because i don't want a load of people on a forum to call me a pussy or laugh at what happened because honestly not only did what i went through break my confidence but it also broke my love for the business for the longest time.

 

I was 13 when i started training in manchester, i lied about my age and later on i found out they knew i was lying they knew my real age the whole time. 
I was labelled a mark because i wanted to learn everything i could and being round those guys i saw on twc the night before was amazing for me, i was subject to having fully grown men que up laughing while they would pick me up and drop me on my head again and again and again. 
I thought i was gaining there respect and this is what you did when you wanted to become a wrestler, pay your dues ect but then i realised one day it was just me that was getting this treatment...... I would have fully grown men pick me up and spike me on my head and laugh the whole time doing it......

Then there was the time someone came up with the hillarious idea of picking me up for a tombstone but instead of hitting it shout tomb-BONE and rub there dicks in my face before dropping me on my head. 

i was sexually abused at the age of 4 and never had a good male role model in my life and these wrestlers that i was seriously looking up to were treating me this way but it was my dream to be there in that ring so i subjected myself to it again and again

then my final day of training happened there was a guy training there called jack he was from liverpool and my final day of training i had him hit me with a move landing me on my head and knocking me out and no one came to my aid..........then we were on the mats listening to dave i think it was speaking and Jack lit up a cigarette and put it out on my back......i ran out of the session burst into tears and never came back. 

what upset me the most about it all was i was so dedicated and yeah i was young and probably abit markish but my heart was in the right place. not 1 person stood up that final day and said anything to jack.....he wasn't kicked out or reprimanded at all.

 

i used to have sanjay bagga ring me up while he was in his gym at home just to talk to me about my training and alex shane (alex took me under his wing and sanjay hated him) but he would say weird things to me but i never said anything because i didn't want to piss off a promoter who could go round and tell everyone not too book me.

 

i don't know what else to say apart from i know how bad this industry can be and the people in it.

What shitty things to do. Just know they arent all like that. I trained at a great school, treated people with respect and built my confidence 1000%. I just wasn't all that good but they kept trying w me! 

Glad you told your story though. We need to hear it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Michael_3165 said:

What shitty things to do. Just know they arent all like that. I trained at a great school, treated people with respect and built my confidence 1000%. I just wasn't all that good but they kept trying w me! 

Glad you told your story though. We need to hear it. 

I know there are awesome schools out there, i genuinely believed that futureshock was one of the best at the time because of the affiliation with the fwa.

Im now on morphine for the pain in my neck i will never not be on painkillers for the rest of my life due to what happened.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This has all been a very sad and depressing long weekend. 

In regards to regulating the business a number of independent promotions in the UK work to an already tight budget and have some of the talent double up to do other duties. 

If you are a promotion that runs a town hall once a month draws 350-400 fans each month at a £12-15 ticket price you have all the various overhead to cover. You have venue, talent fees, event marketing, travel and accommodation. If the promotion doesn't own its own ring then ring hire, production that's not included with the venue hire. There will be other costs that I will have possibly missed. 

Most promotions will struggle to add the cost of professional people in such as on hand medical personnel for all events. 

The wrestlers and anyone backstage might not be willing to pay for any disclosure checks. You could have a scenario where talent are looking for promoters to foot the bill for PVG checks but then the promoter may turn around and say you don't get this yourself you don't get work. Independent wrestling is run on a shoestring budget at times and people will cut costs at every chance to make themselves more profitable. I just hope the industry gets together and is on the same page and there is some sort of regulation and people get themselves disclosure checks.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Hoptimus said:

This has all been a very sad and depressing long weekend. 

In regards to regulating the business a number of independent promotions in the UK work to an already tight budget and have some of the talent double up to do other duties. 

If you are a promotion that runs a town hall once a month draws 350-400 fans each month at a £12-15 ticket price you have all the various overhead to cover. You have venue, talent fees, event marketing, travel and accommodation. If the promotion doesn't own its own ring then ring hire, production that's not included with the venue hire. There will be other costs that I will have possibly missed. 

Most promotions will struggle to add the cost of professional people in such as on hand medical personnel for all events. 

The wrestlers and anyone backstage might not be willing to pay for any disclosure checks. You could have a scenario where talent are looking for promoters to foot the bill for PVG checks but then the promoter may turn around and say you don't get this yourself you don't get work. Independent wrestling is run on a shoestring budget at times and people will cut costs at every chance to make themselves more profitable. I just hope the industry gets together and is on the same page and there is some sort of regulation and people get themselves disclosure checks.  

If you don’t have have the funds and means to provide a safe working place, than you should not be in the wrestling business. It’s not rocket science.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...