Wrestling #MeToo #SpeakingOut

[Keith Houchen]

16 minutes ago, scratchdj said:

As one of (possibly) the longest posters here,

Come on, mate, this is hardly the thread for these boasts. 

[John Matrix]

1 hour ago, PowerButchi said:

The idea that people in Wrestling or have been in Wrestling should be the ones to regulate it doesn't work for me. 

I’ve been trying to make this point all day.  Fucking exhausted by it.  Literally fuck all will change.

Edited June 22, 2020 by John Matrix

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, biggs said:

As fans, or indeed promoters, it's very noble to post worthy and woke comments on socials or forums, expressing disappointment or outrage. But if we pay money to these companies, who at best turn a blind eye to any kind of abuse, we are enabling it.

The former, minus the snarky wording, is an important action too. But I agree that it needs backing up the whole way with the latter.

In an unregulated industry, market forces are the only regulation that can possibly make a difference. The same applies across the board, from seedy shitarse indies to the even seedier WWE. But too many fans lack the courage of their convictions, where the only "courage" required is to pass up the luxury of indulging in their chosen entertainment outlet.

I gots ta have me wrestlin'! I gots ta know what happens! No you fucking don't. It doesn't matter one iota compared to the ugly real world issues fuelling this product. Keep that £9.99 in your pocket and find some other way to fill your time. Something you don't have to make pathetic excuses to support.

If the law's not going to force promoters to get their house in order, then it has to become a financial imperative, and that can only be enforced by us - the givers of the money or the viewers that attract advertisers.

If you can't exercise some self control to impose some basic standards on these people before you line their pockets, then you are complicit and you are enabling every future incident that occurs as a result of the conditions you've decided to keep monetising.

[unfitfinlay]

38 minutes ago, tony1234 said:

Any two bob promoter can put on a show or set up a training school, how many promoters now try and run without adequate insurance for one ? Football had the FA and they did fuck all about the likes of Bennell for years so wrestling hasn't a chance of being regulated.

The only thing that should happen is that there are proper laws and criminal charges brought upon any abusers , if you don't nothing will change 

I disagree. I think that's ignoring the root of the problem, which is the business itself. Wrestling is always going to attract vulnerable people, particularly kids, and as a result, it's also going to attract people looking to exploit and abuse them. Especially since there is shit like "hazing", "respecting the veterans", "protecting the business" and "It's just wrestling" for them to hide behind.

If nothing fundamental changes then all that'll happen is that the abusers will be more secretive, insular, and pick their targets more carefully. That poor girl who trained at FWA only accepted being groped by grown men because so many of them did it that it became normal. If a dodgy Promoter/Trainer only ever books his equally dodgy mates then how do you stop stuff like that?

That's not even getting into the stuff that, while horrible, isn't technically illegal.

As unlikely as it sounds, I think the only way to really change things is if the Government steps in and actually regulates things. They really need to. Is there any other "industry" in the country where someone can hire a hall, stick up a few flyers and immediately be trusted with access to children?

[PunkStep]

1 hour ago, PowerButchi said:

The idea that people in Wrestling or have been in Wrestling should be the ones to regulate it doesn't work for me. 

Nail on the head. 

This industry needs people from the outside to come in and start asking questions such as "what is your safeguarding policy?" or - more importantly to most things - "Why the fuck are you doing that??"

But then again, who on earth gives a shit about British Wrestling enough to do that? This is why this kind of shit can happen and continue to happen. Because nobody cares.

Edited June 22, 2020 by PunkStep

[Hannibal Scorch]

He’s been treated harsher then Jimmy Havoc here

[LWOLeN]

What was Piper trying to say?

 

 

[ElCece]

2 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

He’s been treated harsher then Jimmy Havoc here

That's because he can be Jimmy Havoc will see that and know he is out on his arse once his rehab is done.

[The King Of Swing]

Because Jimmy ran off to rehab before he could face the music.

Unless something changes he's almost certainly getting binned off once he finishes his stint there.

[Kfogg1991]

i think as stated above about how the industry needs figureheads and a proper authority body is really important

what happened to me i belived it was right and i was being told i was paying my dues to then eventually get on shows. I never got put on futureshock shows but i got the shit kicked out of me every single week, jack Gallagher once  knocked me out during training and no one batted an eyelid. 

i used to have fully grown men come on to my sister and make disgusting remarks about her every week during training. 

the people that were happy to take the money and say they were in charge were more involved in having a laugh with there mates than be a go to figurehead.

how pathetic is it that i cried this evening while posting this, ive got 2 kids myself and if they ever went to reach there dreams and went through what i went through i would never forgive myself 

[BomberPat]

25 minutes ago, John Matrix said:

I’ve been trying to make this point all day.  Fucking exhausted by it.  Literally fuck all will change.

For now - and I know this sounds ridiculous given the context - I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt; the people working behind the scenes aren't Alex Shane and Mikey Whiplash, it's Sierra Loxton, it's Leanne, Nina, and so on. And here I'm talking about people specifically working towards something industry-wide, not just the "we've added the only woman we know to our management team" Tweets.

At the moment, there's a lot of understandable distrust and so on, and they're not going to open up to people they don't know. If, once they've come up with a basic framework, or a plan, and make that public, they STILL don't let people in, then I'll give up hope. But I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in the immediate short-term.

[Snitsky's back acne]

Genuine question - I've seen people say about CBS checks but would having those have prevented any of the reported incidents happening?
I appreciate they could prevent repeat offenses etc but all of the names mentioned would, as far as we know, more than likely passed CBS checks were they subject to them wouldn't they?

I think it's a great idea in theory as any kind of regulation is better than none but would it be effective?

[Julian Radbourne]

You know, I wasn't going to say anything here, but screw it, I've got nothing to lose.

A few years ago I wrote about the verbal and emotional abuse I had recieved from the Knight family and their associates after I left WAW, about all of the lies and the rumours that were floating around about me back then. Nobody believed a word I said. Nobody in the business, none of the so-called friends I'd made supported me when I left and when I wrote that piece. All I got was even more abuse.

This forum had a field day, poking fun at me, insulting me even further and heaping more misery on me. It even got to the point where a Facebook page was set advocating violence against me, a page that was liked by several people connected to the Knight family.

If truth be known I could have written about a hell of a lot more, but I didn't. I really didn't want the hassle, because I knew that if I mentioned any of it the Knight family would just deny it and go on about the support they gave me when I was working through my mental health problems, and that some of the people on this forum would insult and ridicule me even more.

Despite all of this I used to give the Knight family credit for what they did for me, that was until one of their number (I won't say who) posted on Facebook that I had faked my mental health problems all of those years ago. They then accused me of something else I won't go into here. Needless to say that what they said about my illness was a complete load of rubbish, and I could easily back this up by getting copies of my medical records from 2001 to 2005. (Don't go looking for that post. It was made during a conversation on another wrestler's Facebook account, and I asked him to delete the post because of what had been said about me.)

If truth be known I only put the WAW-related material back on my blog because I knew that with the release of their film I could get a few more hits and perhaps show a few people just what I'd done for their company. I guess the thing I really wanted was for the Knight family to acknowledge what I'd done for their company, which is something they've refused to do. Indeed, if you look at the history page of the WAW website you'll see that there's nothing listed from 2002 until 2005.

When I saw Charlie Morgan's post this morning, and I saw what others had posted and who had liked those posts I finally felt, after all these years, that a burden had been lifted from my shoulders. I know that what I went through is nothing compared to what others have gone through at the hands of the Knight family, but what these women have done, and what others have done with the emergence of the #SpeakingOut movement is incredibly brave and courageous. They all have my respect and admiration, and I applaud them for their efforts.

To one of the forum members who apologised for the things they said about me in that thread a few years back, thank you for your courage and honesty. But to those who ridiculed, insulted and laughed at me for what I said, shame on you UK Fan Forum, shame on you.

[SuperBacon]

19 minutes ago, Kfogg1991 said:

how pathetic is it that i cried this evening while posting this, ive got 2 kids myself and if they ever went to reach there dreams and went through what i went through i would never forgive myself 

There's nothing to be ashamed of. You went through a traumatic thing, and you shouldn't feel pathetic or anything.

The shitheads who acted wrong towards you are the pathetic ones. Keep your head up.

[biggs]

19 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

For now - and I know this sounds ridiculous given the context - I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt; the people working behind the scenes aren't Alex Shane and Mikey Whiplash, it's Sierra Loxton, it's Leanne, Nina, and so on. And here I'm talking about people specifically working towards something industry-wide, not just the "we've added the only woman we know to our management team" Tweets.

At the moment, there's a lot of understandable distrust and so on, and they're not going to open up to people they don't know. If, once they've come up with a basic framework, or a plan, and make that public, they STILL don't let people in, then I'll give up hope. But I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in the immediate short-term.

The women mentioned above have recently shared their lived experience and the lived experiences of many others. It paints a brutal picture of endemic rape, abuse, coercion, grooming, discrimination and violence across their industry. The bravery they have shown to come forward and challenge the established culture and those who have thrived in it, is admirable. 

I know nothing of their credentials but hope they are seeking advice - both legal and from other industries experience of safeguarding and inclusive, safe work places - on how to develop a pathway for the future. A robust, thorough, accessible framework which respects the legal rights of under 18s, promotes safety for all working and training in wrestling, encourages a culture where speaking out is treated with respect, understanding and the expectation of investigation, and most importantly acts as a deterrent against perpetrators from thinking any type of abuse is accepted or allowed in wrestling.