NXT - Post NXT Takeover discussion in progress

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

7 minutes ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said:

I think one thing that is also making NXT suffering is the fact that the conveyor belt has stuttered.

NXT really benefited with the higher turnover of talent. It's difficult to sick of Nakamura, Bobby Roode or Alistair Black when they are only there for 12 months maximum before being replaced by a fresher new talent.

Now lots of guys are opting to stay there it seems. Which I suppose is fine, but it also kind of robs a spot for another talent waiting to come in. I mean, is there really much else Johnny Gargano can do?

I always think back to mid 90s WWE. Imagine how crap it could of been if WCW didn't take away Diesel, Nash, Hogan, Macho Man etc?

100%. I've fallen off NXT a little over the past year or so (AEW's a big part of that), but a lot of it is down to seeing the same guys in those spots. The addition of Balor was welcome, but I'm over Cole, Gargano and Ciampa in this environment with no real fresh rivalries.

The most exciting thing in recent NXT was the ascension of Bronson Reed- looked every bit a massive star in that ladder match- then he started messing around with Austin Theory in a lower-card thing, and the bloom is off the rose a little. I mean, I don't doubt that Bronson will EVENTUALLY find his way up, but for now it seemed like the time to strike with a fresh face, but they couldn't seem to find the space for him.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

11 hours ago, Shane O' Mac Version 2 said:

100%. I've fallen off NXT a little over the past year or so (AEW's a big part of that), but a lot of it is down to seeing the same guys in those spots. The addition of Balor was welcome, but I'm over Cole, Gargano and Ciampa in this environment with no real fresh rivalries.

The most exciting thing in recent NXT was the ascension of Bronson Reed- looked every bit a massive star in that ladder match- then he started messing around with Austin Theory in a lower-card thing, and the bloom is off the rose a little. I mean, I don't doubt that Bronson will EVENTUALLY find his way up, but for now it seemed like the time to strike with a fresh face, but they couldn't seem to find the space for him.

Well Bronson was obviously a key guy I was thinking of, though I'm bias due to having worked with him. I mean, you try tell me this guy isn't money:

NXT repositioning as a AEW competitor for WWE's model totally makes sense, but really hurts NXT "spirit" overall. It really irritates me when guys like Chiampa say "nah I'm good bro" when asked to go to the main roster. I love him but, GET OUT OF THE WAY!

Mind you this would make a thread topic about clearing out the roster to freshen it up. It's easy to get rid of guys who don't get over or are of poor quality, try picking the guys that have been around to long. Although I enjoy their work and respect them, you have to wonder if the likes of the Miz, Ziggler, Sheamus could really do with going on hiatus for a few years to allow the upward movement.

Edited December 7, 2020 by andrew "the ref" coyne

[uklaw]

I wonder (and this is just throwing things out there) if the quality of the product can be traced to a specific period of time other than (or in addition to) the expansion and move to USA Network to compete with AEW?

Such as the inclusion of ‘main roster’ creative personnel such as Brian James to NXT?

[WyattSheepMask]

The fact there’s so little conversation on here post-Takeover I think shows where people are with the show, and much like a lot of WWE’s output it seems to be at an all time low. I gave up watching the TV as a regular thing after the last Gargano/Ciampa match, but I watch Takeover because I know they’ll recap anything important. 
Last one of the year, which means it’s War Games and it’s also that time of the year that HHH digs out his Best of Black Sabbath CD

The women’s War Games match improved once all of them were in, but it was rough going before that, and quelle fucking surprise, fucking kendo sticks. All those people writing the shows, and all any of them can come up with again & again is fucking kendo sticks. I’ve no idea who Indy Heartwell is so that run in was lost on me, and Toni Storms a heel now yet still doesn’t seem to have a shred of personality. 
Pinfalls count between the rings now, formally known as the Demilitarised Zone, which surely defeats the point of having two rings. Why not just have one giant massive fuck off ring?
Shotzi Blackheart also managed to make me go off her completely in the space of one match thanks to two points where she just stood like a fucking idiot waiting for Candice to either get a weapon or get into position.

Ciampa/Thatcher was OK and served as a good first match in a series, but the same can’t be said about the Lumis/Grimes Strap match, which I lost interest in about half way through.

While his gimmick is basically the same as early Baron Corbin, Damien Priest is probably the most consistently decent guy I’ve watched all year. He’s not fantastic and some of his stuff looks a little rough, but I can’t think of anything where’s been out & out awful. The Triple Threat itself was pretty good, shame it got spoiled by the appearance of a peadophile at the end. And doing the Higher Power “it was me along!”, I didn’t think he liked things that old

Pete Dunne’s new look has improved him so much, and 2020 cemented itself as the most mental of years with Main Event Martin Stone. 
When he pulled that bag out from under the ring, I said to myself “if those are kendo sticks, I’m turning it off”. Thankfully I didn’t have to do that and I got to see the best heel in the business do his thing. Seriously, McAfee is fucking great.
All the talk of one team having “the advantage” - surely whoever goes in last gives their team the advantage because they have the freshest man when the match “officially starts”. 
Did it need to be 45 minutes? Probably not, but I’d say this was one of the better War Games matches they’ve done, and we got Pete Dunne shaking like a shitting dog, so every cloud and all that.

That vulture vignette I assume is for Karin Kross’ return, so that’s another plus, but it’s going to take more convincing to make me tune to each week

Edited December 7, 2020 by WyattSheepMask

[Tsurutagun]

Due to a couple of mental health days off. I didn't have the opportunity to say how much I hated the booking of the women's War Games match. It was pretty ironic that on the night Impact Wrestling became relevant that NXT did a TNA with the faces having the advantage in War Games. I expected there to be a "Dusty Finish" and normality to proceed but then there wasn't one. As for the match, I would have enjoyed it when I was 12 with all the incessant weapon shots but that was 20 years ago. Whoever laid that out should learn wrestling psychology.

Enjoyed Ciampa/Thatcher

Dexter Loomis sucks

If you'd told me that Punishment Martinez would be one the best things in NXT when he was in ROH I would have though you were crazy

The Undisputed Era vs British Invasion war games match was really good but 45 minutes? Really? Pat McAfee as a wrestling personality is awesome but him kicking out of a Canadian Destroyer almost caused me to smash my ipad to pieces. Its hilarious to me that there are people out there who think AEW is the worst thing ever but think that spot was OK. Stans gonna Stan I guess. 

 

 

[Project Nim]

Takeovers of 2 hours or 2 hours 20 minutes were perfectly fine and a good watch but no, every bloody thing now has to be a minimum of 3 hours. 
That strap match went on and on and on.

[The Cutting Edge]

Length of matches seems to be a problem in all of wrestling these days, nothing wrong with a fast paced 10min match.

I think War Games could be more affective if they did eliminations instead of waiting til all 8 are in cos even then it goes another 20mins, gives them more stories to tell and stops the end being a cluster.

Kross gotta be back on Wednesday or the vulture was a dig at Sting and AEW according to some Muppets online

Ciampa Vs Thatcher was good but again too long 

Priest has a ton of upside and looks the part

 

 

 

 

[HarmonicGenerator]

I did Watch Wrestling in the background while I was working this afternoon, so I have seen this show. Sadly I can't say it brought my love for NXT back.

Women's War Games was fine. I like Dakota Kai and I like Rhea Ripley. I'm not hugely bothered about any of them. I will say, one thing WWE have done really well the last few years is present and show the women to be as good or worthy of time on a show as the men. In AEW, they are absolutely second tier filler with the token women's match. In NXT, they feel more equal.

I zoned out during the Ciampa-Thatcher and Strap matches. Again, I'm not hugely bothered about any of them, and nobody did anything that grabbed my attention.

I thought Damian Priest was pretty good in the Triple Threat match, there's somebody who's improved since I last saw any NXT. Potential for something there.

Men's War Games was fine. McAfee did some good stuff. I just ... wasn't hugely bothered by any of them. UE won, so what's next? They go after all the titles... again? Who's there as a heel group to challenge them? What's the reason to care what they do now?

I don't like to sound so down on it but it's only a couple of years ago that I'd watch a TakeOver and be thrilled and excited by the build-up, by what happened on the show, by at least half of the matches, and by what might happen afterwards. It's not that long ago that TakeOvers were the most exciting part of my wrestling fandom. And this just had none of that. It's a proper shame.

Edited December 7, 2020 by HarmonicGenerator

[Supremo]

It was a modern day Takeover. Bloated, baffling booking, but everyone worked hard, you got a fun collection of mad spots and there were a couple of really great individual performances.

Io Shirai is on a different level to everyone else on this brand. She's so talented, you almost feel bad that she came in and got the big push at the worst time possible. She completely carried that Women's War Games match. It felt as if she came in, read the script, rolled her eyes at what a load of shit the writers had come up with, so just decided to run and jump around like a maniac to amuse herself. A real WCW vibe.

"So the babyfaces have the advantage but still lose? Pass me the bin. I've got a funny idea."

Men's War Games was fun, if a little patterned and predictable, and definitely would've been improved by cutting ten minutes off. Pat McAfee being amazing aside, it just feels like we've seen this same match with Undisputed Era for years now. I hate them doing specific matches at specific times of the year, "just because," at the best of times. But constantly doing this same match with the same team is getting pretty fucking boring now. They desperately need to shake things up. Maybe break up Undisputed Era? It would've been ace if one or all of them turned on Cole to end the show.

And speaking of needing a shakeup, I don't think there's ever been a run of Takeover matches I'm less interested in than Grimes vs. Lumis and Ciampa vs. Thatcher. Don't get me wrong, it looked like Ciampa and Thatcher beat the shit out of each other, but how can anyone possibly care about seeing any of these characters? They all feel like death. Four black holes of excitement. Bad Dolph Zigglers, the lot of them.

The Triple Threat  was a little gem of a match until the finish. Priest continues to impress and Ruff was fun in the role of small goof. Priest and Gargano have great chemistry. All the fun ended when Theory revealed himself though. Fuck off, nonce. I was enjoying this feud but now I'm out.

So yeah, it was what you'd expect. A brand completely stuck in a rut, running on a treadmill. Even with people who show promise like Raquel González, you know she'll either do the same thing for years until you stop caring or just move to Raw or Smackdown when Vince sees her, only to go 50/50 and vanish into obscurity. It really hammered it home when Keith Lee's documentary aired right after this show. Remember him? And remember when they built up Adam Cole's title run for over a year, only to spunk it away for a one-night rating followed by Keith immediately fucking off? Even if Kross hadn't gotten hurt Keith Lee losing clean and vanishing a few weeks after his big moment still feels like the worst use of momentum ever.

This show needs a big change and a proper direction. Anyone fancy a ladder match on Wednesday?

Edited December 7, 2020 by Supremo

[Mr Butternut Squash]

Couldn't be arsed with wargames but I did enjoy the vid on my youtube feed of Alverez having an aneurysm over the psychology of the women's match.

I'll give NXT a break until whenever crowds come back. It really is like a promotion booked by edgy 15 year olds. Endless ladders, chairs, tables and fucking kendo sticks and a mounting pile of broken body parts. And for what? It's still dullest show on Earth.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Mr Butternut Squash

[DavidB6937]

I actually really enjoyed it apart from the strap match. Everything kept my attention and I thought it was a pretty fun show overall. Was it one of their best? Of course not but there was enough that I didn't feel like I'd wasted my time.

[Nick James]

Why are kendo sticks so rife at the moment? WWE/NXT, AEW and Impact have all used the ridiculous amounts over the last 6 months. If I never see one again, it'll be too soon. 

 

[Weezenal]

55 minutes ago, Nick James said:

Why are kendo sticks so rife at the moment? WWE/NXT, AEW and Impact have all used the ridiculous amounts over the last 6 months. If I never see one again, it'll be too soon. 

 

Black Friday discounts?

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

This is why Pat McAfee is the best wrestler in WWE at the minute. 

 

[LWOLeN]

I’m convinced that the Woman War Games was well rehearsed. Almost all moves and sequences looked anticipated. There is no ‘art’ in that.