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Covid-19 Megathread


Loki

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19 hours ago, David said:

Okay, cool. What is a legitimate reason then?

I'd have thought that was obvious. Legitimate reasons do not include people believing in sky fairies, or having a personal dislike/distrust of vaccines for whatever reason. The only legitimate reason for refusing a vaccine is a medical exemption, not a belief exemption.

The NHS website details the positive effects vaccines have, they help;

  1. reduce your risk of getting seriously ill or dying from COVID-19
  2. reduce your risk of catching or spreading COVID-19
  3. protect against COVID-19 variants

So per the second effect, they also help break the cycle of transmission, therefore it's everyone's reponsibility to get vaccinated if they are able to do so. I do not accept that "civil liberties" allow people to go round contributing to the spread of infectious, deadly diseases when vaccines are available.

I fully understand people may have a distrust of vaccines, but that does not give them a legitimate excuse to go round murdering other people through their selfish actions. Their selfish actions also include delaying non-COVID related treatment to other patients due to the NHS being busy treating unvaccinated COVID patients, many of whom could have avoided hospitalisation by getting vaccinated.

Before this pandemic I would have been very much in favour of people being trusted to do the right thing. However, as has been demonstrated time and again, many people won't do the right thing; parties during lockdown, refusal to wear masks, failure to social distance and of course failiure to get vaccinated.

 

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22 hours ago, David said:

Let's be honest, the Bill Gates/conspiracy stuff is nonsense, and the people who actually buy into that kind of thing are what they always have been. A fringe minority. 

When you look at the statistics it would appear that vaccine hesitancy, especially when it comes to the Covid vaccine, is centred for the most part on non-white groups, people with dependent children from the ages of 0-4, adults educated to below degree level, renters rather than property owners, and lower income earners from the most deprived areas. 

For me, the most sensible approach to dealing with this situation is to find out exactly why people from these backgrounds aren't as quick to accept the vaccine as other more affluent, more white groups. The answer certainly isn't to start threatening minorities and working class people with expulsion from the health system.

By doing so we're simply doing the 'Tories jobs for them far better than they ever could themselves. Expel the poor, working class minority groups and provide unfettered access to healthcare for the more wealthy, predominantly older and white demographic.

And what is a "legitimate reason" in your eyes? And who would you have determine this definitive list that decides if someone is shunned and allowed to die, or given life-saving treatment? The government? You would trust them with that task? I'm sure they'd love to take you up on that considering the demographics I've mentioned above.

And please, enough with the "anti-vaxxer" shite. Leave that for The Sun and Sky News. What we're talking about here, for the most part, is vaccine hesitancy when it comes to one particular vaccine. We're not discussing some outback survivalist who's stockpiling weapons for the great race war and thinks every injection from the government is a tracking device.

These are, for the most part, reasonable people with legitimate concerns that deserve to be addressed properly rather than dealt with using threats of expulsion. 

Having worked for the NHS and then doing a Covid Community thing, I can confirm that your reasoning is absolutely bollocks. 

Most people are not getting jabs because of lack of trust that the system works, will treat them like a human being and will meet their needs , whether its race, religion, sexuality or gender, the reasons are usually the same, no trust in the system and nowt to do with socio economics whatsoever. I've only worked with hundreds and hundreds of people, so I'm going on first hand evidence of that. Getting over that has been especially difficult. 

Within them there are anti vaxxers, who believe the conspiracy bilge and those the notion of bodily purity still ranks highly and they will still take outrageous risks with their bodies whether it is sexually or meet ups socially or generally extreme activities. 

However, if they're not vaxxed then there's likely to be some loss of liberty should things go that way. Personal choice doesnt mean that you get to potentially kill others. It just makes people selfish dickheads. 

 

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3 hours ago, BomberPat said:

My friend's sister posted on Facebook, saying "It's not that I don't trust vaccines, I just don't think this one has been developed for long enough"

I had to explain to my Dad when he used this type of argument, that they didn't just start from scratch with these particular vaccines, so it wasn't developed "quickly" at all.

Rather that they've been developing vaccines for however long it's been, and they have a base to work off, and adapt as they go.

I explained to him that it's like having a pizza base, and you add ingredients and take them away to see what works and doesn't work, and he seemed to get that. Maybe I should speak to all the "vaccine hesitant" people :)

 

 

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1 minute ago, SuperBacon said:

I had to explain to my Dad when he used this type of argument, that they didn't just start from scratch with these particular vaccines, so it wasn't developed "quickly" at all.

On top of that, there isn't just an arbitrary period of time that a vaccine takes to develop. Even if the current batch of vaccines were developed from scratch last year, they were developed at the height of a global pandemic, so had a degree of time, resources, manpower and political will that isn't afforded to most other treatments for other conditions.

1 hour ago, David said:

What's your view on the numerous court cases and suchlike we've seen pharmaceutical companies hit with? And the fines they've paid? I'm not saying that they're the evil, dastardly characters some conspiracy theorists paint them as, but it can't really be denied that they make their profits from people being sick, not from people being healthy. And let's be honest, that's the name of the game here. Money and profit.

Wouldn't you agree that a healthy level of scepticism is required? 

A healthy degree of scepticism is required in all things, but what you're talking about isn't a healthy degree of scepticism. You might not view what you're saying as being in line with conspiracy theorists, but pretty clearly implying that the people behind life-saving vaccines and treatments are more concerned with profit than with public health, or are inherently corrupt or untrustrworthy, is conspiratorial thinking.

There is, of course, no ethical consumption under capitalism, and I'd be much happier with a situation where life-saving medicines and vaccines aren't subject to patent law and can be made universally available rather than sold for a profit. With the profit motive removed, we'd be in a much better position now in terms of Covid treatment, I'm convinced of that. But there's clear evidence that vaccination works, that it reduces the risk of infection, of serious illness, and of death. A greater percentage of unvaccinated people are dying, a greater percentage of hospital cases are unvaccinated, even though they make up an increasingly small % of the overall population. The evidence is pretty cut and dry, and to reject that out of hand because there might be a CEO skimming a little too much off the top (while making no other meaningful protest against the capitalist system) isn't a rational, or in my eyes justified, reason to be sceptical about the efficacy of a vaccine. 

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22 minutes ago, patiirc said:

Having worked for the NHS and then doing a Covid Community thing, I can confirm that your reasoning is absolutely bollocks. 

Most people are not getting jabs because of lack of trust that the system works, will treat them like a human being and will meet their needs , whether its race, religion, sexuality or gender, the reasons are usually the same, no trust in the system and nowt to do with socio economics whatsoever. I've only worked with hundreds and hundreds of people, so I'm going on first hand evidence of that. Getting over that has been especially difficult. 

To which system do you keep referring here?

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2 hours ago, David said:

What's your view on the numerous court cases and suchlike we've seen pharmaceutical companies hit with? And the fines they've paid? I'm not saying that they're the evil, dastardly characters some conspiracy theorists paint them as, but it can't really be denied that they make their profits from people being sick, not from people being healthy. And let's be honest, that's the name of the game here. Money and profit.

Wouldn't you agree that a healthy level of scepticism is required? 

I’ve said the following to “Conspiratorial minded people”. The two things helping the spread of Covid are Statuary Sick Pay and vaccine waivers. If poorer countries can’t afford the vaccines, then more variants will appear. If more variants appear, the companies who hold the patents will profit so no wonder they won’t waive the patent. It does tie in with what Pat said regarding shifts in arguments because if people accept my conspiracy theory, which most seem to do, they accept that Covid is real and the science is real. 

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My youngest has a faint line on his LFT test today. Fucking great. PCR test tomorrow, but that's surely Christmas buggered. If he's positive, then we're housebound for a week or so. If he's negative, then by the time the result comes through it'll be during Christmas Day or Boxing Day.

Fuck this shit. 

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There was a thing on the BBC website today where an expert said "If you feel like you've got a cold it's probably the Omicron variant and you should get tested."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59768366

Also 119,000 new cases today and they're still waiting until Christmas day to announce the next round of action? I reckon t'll be early closing for pubs in the new year to coincide with a decline in footfall following New Year celebrations, which will be fine for your Wetherpoon's and other Tory gastropub chains saving on their overheads during a quiet period, but my mum'll be fucked as most of her customers usually turn up in the evening.

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2 hours ago, johnnyboy said:

Oh mate, isn't that two years in a row?  Gutted for you.

Yep, although last year it didn't matter in the end as Johnson made sure we were all housebound anyway. Two years in a row without seeing family is fucking shite, especially as my wife doesn't get to see her folks that often after they moved to Lincolnshire a few years ago. 

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This round of Omicron is flying through my family and friends. Dad positive PCRd last night, he's ok, they think mum's already had it :/ Couldn't get LFTs or PCR at the time, lost her taste etc

One of my besties has been struggling for days (hoping she doesnt end up in hospital) and loads more have caught it in the run up with my old poll teacher also testing positive. 

Stay safe out there 

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On 12/23/2021 at 4:04 PM, PunkStep said:

My youngest has a faint line on his LFT test today. Fucking great. PCR test tomorrow, but that's surely Christmas buggered. If he's positive, then we're housebound for a week or so. If he's negative, then by the time the result comes through it'll be during Christmas Day or Boxing Day.

Fuck this shit. 

Christmas was buggered, my son's PCR test came back positive on Christmas Day afternoon. So time to delay Christmas for a few days. 

Then on Monday, my wife had the faintest of lines on her LFT so we all booked PCR tests for yesterday morning. Results came back today- my wife's is 'inconclusive' (for the second time in a row- what the fuck) and I've tested positive. I've lost track in terms of when we can actually see family over Christmas but I think it will be after the New Year's weekend now.

Merry Christmas everyone

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