Paid Members Supremo Posted August 2, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted August 2, 2021 (edited) I completely agree that The Elite in their current form feels like a top act that could go for another six months to a year. And with guys like Danielson and Punk coming in it does make sense for Omega to keep the Title so they can do those dream matches first. But don’t start the Hangman thing, then. Don’t pull the trigger, get everyone excited, and then change your mind three weeks in. We’ve got decades of evidence of what happens when you stop and start stuff like that. It’s nearly impossible to get it back. There’s every chance this negatively affects Bryan and Punk, too. I’ve already gone from losing my mind with excitement to half resenting them for derailing my favourite storyline ever. Edited August 2, 2021 by Supremo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_90 Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 47 minutes ago, Liam O'Rourke said: I don't think the pregnancy had much to do with it, what changed with Hangman was that CM Punk and Bryan Danielson are about to come in, and I'm guessing there's two things in play - in both cases there are big money matches with Omega so it may be wiser to keep the title on Kenny for now, and also it's a tricky time to annoint Hangman the top guy without making him secondary to those two, which you almost have to in order to promote their introduction with the gravity it should have. If he loses here, goes sad cowboy and goes away for a little while, then Omega beats Punk and Bryan and says nobody can beat him one on one, and then Hangman returns, then the timing is better. Hopefully people love Hangman enough to still be with him. The general reaction to Hangman losing makes me think he’s still got massive amounts of support from fans. People clearly care massively about this, moreso than anything in wrestling for a long long time. I don’t think the past week will see people giving up on him. The big thing now is to make sure he’s still put in a prominent enough position over the next few months so he retains some of this momentum that’s been generated in recent weeks. Someone like a Malakai Black would make for a good interim feud especially if he destroys Cody this Wednesday. I’d rather this than keeping him off TV for months on end until Omega has done the Punk/Dragon matches. I’m disappointed we won’t be seeing the culmination at All Out but, based on everything that’s happened the past weeks, I do think it’s the best decision. And I have faith in AEW getting it right when Page finally has his moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted August 2, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted August 2, 2021 I'm sure at some point they said that Page and Dark Order losing would mean he never got a shot at Omega again, but they downplayed that on Dynamite, so I'm wondering if either the first stipulation was misreported by wherever I read it, or that they've dialled it back in order to give him a shot at another point. There are big shows before and after All Out to consider. It may be that they give Hangman the shot at Grand Slam next month, in front of a huge audience. That gives him a little under two months to work his way back up the ranks to the number one contender's spot, if that's the way they want to play it. While the decision might not be about the pregnancy, I'm sure him having a child due right around the time of the pay-per-view would have played into it - if they weren't sure which way to go, him being able to be with his wife might have made that decision easier. The danger is that Page isn't heated up well enough to be the one to beat Omega when they make that decision - but we've had this conversation before, haven't we? I think the only mistake they can make now is having Page not be the one to beat Omega - Danielson and Punk coming in are big enough deals in their own right, and neither of them need to be involved with the title right away. Initially, the draw is just them coming in, if they hold off on the match with Omega, that's getting a second big drawing card out of the same guys - but that can wait, they can keep busy with other people first - Punk with Darby Allin, and I'm expecting Bryan to get involved with Cody, if only because of how quickly they're rushing into his match with Malakai Black, which makes me think Cody wants to be freed up at All Out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lorne Malvo Posted August 2, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted August 2, 2021 18 minutes ago, BomberPat said: I'm sure at some point they said that Page and Dark Order losing would mean he never got a shot at Omega again, but they downplayed that on Dynamite, so I'm wondering if either the first stipulation was misreported by wherever I read it, or that they've dialled it back in order to give him a shot at another point. The stipulation was vague as fuck, to be fair. Omega just said something along the lines of "If we win the elimination match then you have to go away". They never really went in-depth beyond that, and it seems from Dynamite this week they just meant Hangman loses his #1 ranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavemanLynn Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 The fact that Punk and Bryan are draws regardless of the angle means it makes even more sense to keep them out of the title picture. All roads point to Page, so if either faces Omega, in one of their first matches for AEW, and with all of Kenny's backup, do we really think Kenny's losing to them? It's a high-profile exhibition match, and sends the wrong message to everyone booking-wise if they do beat him for the belt. It's far more interesting and better business to give the rub to your up-and-comers, and to be honest, the matchups and angles are much more out-there because of it. There's half a dozen guys in AEW you could pair with either of them and they'd do gangbusters. Some people might think a 'dream match' marquee of Punk vs Omega is worthwhile, but Punk vs human bullet Darby Allin? Now you have my attention. I have no idea what is going to happen, how that match is going to play out, or who is going over at the end of it. Same with Bryan. Submission match where Jericho can't use the Liontamer, then into a feud with the Pinnacle? No worries. Holiday camp chain match with Orange Cassidy? I'm all over it. Re: Christian, I might be misremembering, but he came in doing contract signing angles around Kenny, but I don't recall him having the match. If they do go with the match as a stop-gap, I can see it getting no reactions, and only being there to foment dissent in the Jurassic Express. I can see Christian coaching Jungle Boy to a title win (maybe not the AEW belt), then telling him he owes him a title match for getting him there, only to blindside and cheat him out of the belt. Out. Smart. Everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted August 2, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted August 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, CavemanLynn said: Some people might think a 'dream match' marquee of Punk vs Omega is worthwhile, but Punk vs human bullet Darby Allin? Now you have my attention. I have no idea what is going to happen, how that match is going to play out, or who is going over at the end of it. Same with Bryan. Submission match where Jericho can't use the Liontamer, then into a feud with the Pinnacle? No worries. Holiday camp chain match with Orange Cassidy? I'm all over it. I think Bryan has so much more value than Punk in this regard because he's a much more versatile wrestler, doesn't take himself as seriously, and is far more inclined to work his opponent's match - Bryan against Orange Cassidy, Eddie Kingston or Pentagon Jr all strike me as just as exciting possibilities as anything he could do with Kenny Omega, whereas Punk (especially at this point) feels like much more of a Big Match Wrestler, who I can't see spending as much time having fun little matches with "lesser" stars. That said, if he ends up doing Orange Cassidy's schtick with him, it'll be hilarious, so who knows? Punk was asked on Twitter who in AEW he'd most like to work with, long before there was any talk of him having signed, and he named Darby Allin, Jungle Boy, Pillman Jr and Powerhouse Hobbs as people he saw real promise in. That doesn't mean we necessarily see an actual programme with all of them, but I can see a feud with Team Taz as a way to introduce CM Punk and give him a few heels to beat before he gets in the title picture. That's the other thing with AEW having a ranking system - in theory, they can't just sign someone and put them straight in a World Title match. They need to pick up some wins first, which is the perfect excuse to give Bryan and Punk feuds away from the title while Omega and Page do their thing, knowing that those matches are available later down the line.  Worth remembering as well that All Out isn't the only big show coming up - there's the debut episode of Rampage, the second episode ("The First Dance") in Chicago, and the big Grand Slam in September 22nd all crying out for big main event matches too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Punk coming in feels like it’s gonna be filling the Jericho role of stories and promos over wrestling. Title match doesn't have to be immediate  when Christian came in, On A few podcasts he said he had the confrontations with Omega just to set his aim, but the “do the work” was him going away to work his way up to being a contender, not just waltzing in and taking one right away as we have all been built up to expect.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted August 2, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted August 2, 2021 I suppose everything depends on whether Punk is coming in full time or he's got the AEW version of the big money-part time Lesnar contract he's always wanted. I'm hoping it's the latter. Punk turning up to do 3 or 4 big programmes and matches per year is a lot more interesting to me than seeing him every week. Additionally, a Punk/Omega match doesn't really interest me too much. Punk vs Allin is really interesting though. He's a perfect first opponent for Punk too as Allin doesn't have bad matches and his style will negate any ring rust Punk has, plus even having that high profile of a match puts Allin over huge win or lose. But really anything AEW do will be better than bringing in that useless shitarse wet wipe Adam Cole. That dickhead needs to be kept away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 (edited) Saw WhatCulture suggested this match for a AEW ALL OUT main event. Have to admit, it's not outside the realms of possibility and would certainly be worthy of a AEW title match on a monster card. Edited August 2, 2021 by andrew "the ref" coyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted August 2, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted August 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said: Saw What Culture suggest this match for a AEW ALL OUT main event. Have to be admit, it's not outside the realms of possibility and would certainly be worthy of a AEW title match on a monster card. Who’s the bloke on the right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 Just now, garynysmon said: Who’s the bloke on the right? We need to bring down votes back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said: Saw WhatCulture suggested this match for a AEW ALL OUT main event. Have to admit, it's not outside the realms of possibility and would certainly be worthy of a AEW title match on a monster card. Absolutely no chance new Japan are giving their only proper young headliner up to lose after under a months build for another companies show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted August 2, 2021 Share Posted August 2, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Louch said: Absolutely no chance new Japan are giving their only proper young headliner up to lose after under a months build for another companies show. ABSOLUTELY no chance? Considering the promotion I work for in Aus managed to get him to compete for us with only 600 fans, I wouldn't completely cross it out. Exposing one of the best wrestlers in the world to the American audience and using the match as a means to promote a NJPW show in the US? I would not completely write it off.  Edited August 2, 2021 by andrew "the ref" coyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Nick James Posted August 2, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted August 2, 2021 21 minutes ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said: We need to bring down votes back. Not all of us watch NJPW, I have no idea who it is either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted August 2, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted August 2, 2021 (edited) That's Kazuchika Okada. He's genuinely incredible - amazing wrestler and dripping with charisma. One of his biggest assets is being able to have brilliant matches in his opponent's style. He has had a series of amazing matches with Kenny Omega. To some mocking, as you can imagine, they got six and seven stars from Dave Meltzer, which means he regards them as the greatest matches he's ever seen. Even if people don't know him, with the right presentation, he'd immediately come across as a huge star. That said, I don't believe that'll happen. Edited August 2, 2021 by Chris B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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