The AEW Wednesday Night Dynamite Thread

[garynysmon]

On the back of Kenny Omega's match at Impact on Saturday, spreading his wings in the way that he is,  it got me wondering if he'll legitimately end up being considered one of the top stars of his era in the western world.

Considering his AEW status and role, there's a strong liklihood that he will never wrestle for WWE (given that I can't see them working with anyone on AEW's level).

With the exception of Sting (who did sign for WWE, but only long after his legacy had been etched) I struggle to think of anyone else in north America since the late 80's who would be considered in that bracket without at least one run in New York. 

With all due respect, Japanese wrestling is, was and always be niche in north America and Europe.

So basically, what I'm debating is if AEW have the national/worldwide reach to allow Omega to reach those heights? 

Personally, given WWE's fall from grace and AEW's ongoing growth, I'd argue it's more than possible in this day and age.

Edited January 19, 2021 by garynysmon

[BomberPat]

I definitely think it's possible for Omega to be a Sting type - the franchise of the "other" company, and potentially ending up in a few situations that are arguably "bigger" than WWE; I wouldn't be surprised to see AEW get to a WCW-like level of significant competition with WWE's flagship shows.

The issue is that even when WCW was beating the WWF every week in the ratings, to be a top star in WCW wasn't bigger than being a top star in the WWF. There's so much equity built up in the WWF brand that WCW never broke beyond that, and I doubt AEW will either. So it becomes a matter of optics, really.

 

Then again, it depends what we consider "a run with WWE"; he was under a developmental deal with them in the mid-00s, if you wanted to be a pedant about it. 

[danlewis]

A Christian and Matt Hardy team, if a long term thing would’ve been on of the best teams to have ever existed, two creative people who can really go and have a track record for mostly getting stuff over? Yeah, I’d have been up for that.

A Jeff Hardy and Edge team just sounds fucking weird.

 

 

[DavidB6937]

The legacy of anyone in this day and age for wrestling is a tough one, especially with where wrestling sits in the world now.

Will Omega being on top mean anything if it's happening now? At least compared to the 'legends' of before, where they were either at the top when wrestling was on top, or they took it to new heights etc. Everything has to be in context.

AEW's next few years will be really interesting in terms of where they sit in the wrestling world. Do they continue what they're doing? Do they run against WWE properly? Who knows.

Omega's impact will arguably be measured on how far he takes AEW. There's no doubt that he's achieved a lot in his career already but I do wonder what the ceiling is for creating legacies these days.

[The Gaffer]

Is there any advantages at all to AEW running against WWE, save to fulfill the wet dreams of dem? It's hard to imagine that ever happening, although given how weird this business is and how easily those involved can fall into their gimmicks, I can't completely rule out Tony Khan going down that road one day. The best thing they can do is let WWE's own bonfire continue to go out and hope they can gradually pick up small bits of kindling from that. They have enough mainstream exposure now to at least be properly positioned as an alternative if people want one. 

I believe they were expected to become profitable in 2020 off the back of their extended TV deal, right? If they can bump those ratings from 700,000 to a clean million every now and then and bring the papering down on their houses a little more once they get back on the road, I'd consider that a massive success. Before covid it essentially just looked and sounded like a big time wrestling show that wasn't WWE, which is all I want from them really. They started out of the gates better than TNA were at their commercial height, where for those 1.5s they enjoyed - and it was a decade ago - it still nearly always looked like a Betty Ford clinic ensemble of older stars doing a soundstage production. 

It's fucking crazy to think they went after Raw in 2010, but it was pure ego from those involved and a willingness to listen to their TNA! TNA! contingent to try and recreate some Attitude and stick one to Vince. 

I think AEW are smarter than that. 

[DavidB6937]

55 minutes ago, Gay as FOOK said:

Is there any advantages at all to AEW running against WWE, save to fulfill the wet dreams of dem? It's hard to imagine that ever happening, although given how weird this business is and how easily those involved can fall into their gimmicks, I can't completely rule out Tony Khan going down that road one day. The best thing they can do is let WWE's own bonfire continue to go out and hope they can gradually pick up small bits of kindling from that. They have enough mainstream exposure now to at least be properly positioned as an alternative if people want one. 

I believe they were expected to become profitable in 2020 off the back of their extended TV deal, right? If they can bump those ratings from 700,000 to a clean million every now and then and bring the papering down on their houses a little more once they get back on the road, I'd consider that a massive success. Before covid it essentially just looked and sounded like a big time wrestling show that wasn't WWE, which is all I want from them really. They started out of the gates better than TNA were at their commercial height, where for those 1.5s they enjoyed - and it was a decade ago - it still nearly always looked like a Betty Ford clinic ensemble of older stars doing a soundstage production. 

It's fucking crazy to think they went after Raw in 2010, but it was pure ego from those involved and a willingness to listen to their TNA! TNA! contingent to try and recreate some Attitude and stick one to Vince. 

I think AEW are smarter than that. 

The main thing for me is time.

Are AEW smarter than that at the moment? Absolutely.

Does Tony seem like a nice enough guy that he wouldn't go down the Vince road? Sure.

But what time and experience does to a man is unpredictable. Not just with Tony but with the talent too. Egos get out of control. Greed takes over etc. We just don't know.

Plus as you say - it's a fucking weird business. If Vince decides to start taking it to AEW properly instead of mostly ignoring them, then I'm sure Tony would want to retaliate etc. AEW might make some bad booking decisions. Or Vince might die and WWE might start putting a decent product out again. There are just so many 'what if?' scenarios and I am all here for it.

The one thing AEW has managed to deliver is excitement and potential far beyond what anyone else has, and that's damn good for wrestling as a whole.

[thevestofdeanambrose]

What's your thoughts on Brian Pillman Jnr? Do you think they are going to go down the same route as his dad eventually with him snapping and going mad? 

[Jackpot]

Surely TNT will have some say in it as well.

I mean technically they're already going up against WWE with NXT because that's the slot TNT have given them. Maybe their big wigs are more clued up into thinking there's more money to be made out of a Wednesday night show than a Monday night show. Where they position the second show (if they go ahead with that) will be a better indication if they think they're ready to tackle WWE's main roster shows.

Do they move Dynamite from Wednesday to Monday like TNA did with Impact or do they keep their flagship show going up against NXT rather than Raw or SmackDown.

[BomberPat]

I don't think there's any desire from AEW to do a "Monday Night Wars" rehash.

Sure, there's the odd dig at WWE, and it's usually kind of embarrassing, but it's likely a combination of ex-WWE guys getting it off their chest, and AEW knowing that there's a decent percentage of the fanbase that laps that stuff up, and it's never anything meaningful.

For the most part, they've done a really good job of just getting on with things, building their own brand, and mostly letting their product speak for itself. They're not talking it up in relation to WWE the way WCW or TNA did, they're just building up equity in their own product. It's probably the smartest thing they could have done - they're not positioning themselves as WWE-beating, they're managing expectations and letting other people find them as an alternative rather than screaming it from the rooftops. That seems to be working well for them in terms of winning over demographics that aren't watching WWE, and they'll do brilliantly if they can continue to build and capitalise on that. 

If the AEW video games don't lean too heavily on No Mercy nostalgia and end up being something that would appeal to a broad fanbase, that could hook a lot of people - it was Smackdown on the PS1 that got me back into wrestling, and I know I'm not alone in that. If I were a kid with no prior knowledge of wrestling, playing a wrestling game at my mate's house for the first time, would I want to play a game where I get to play as someone who looks like Seth Rollins or Humberto Carillo, or a game where I can play as someone who looks like Luchasaurus, Pentagon Jr or Sting?

 

I was really down on AEW when it was first being shopped around and treated as the new WCW - you had people convinced they might sign The Undertaker or John Cena, and that they would have a bottomless budget and take it to WWE straight away - but one of the things that surprised me is how little they've really rushed into things. I was expecting a huge debut on every show, and we haven't had that, they've built up their own core roster to a greater degree than how they've used guys like Miro or Matt Hardy, and the most compelling storytelling is all long-form stuff around Kenny Omega, Hangman Page; guys with relatively little baggage in terms of American TV exposure.

Could things change? Maybe, but I don't see any indication of it. There doesn't seem to be the drive to "beat" WWE, just to provide a viable wrestling company that isn't WWE. Any aggression will come from the other direction - counter-programming with NXT hasn't really had any impact on AEW, but has been to NXT's detriment. The question is if Vince goes to the well of dirtier tricks like the "if you carry their PPV you can't have ours" (though that's barely even viable any more, with streaming services and so on), or "you can't have Wrestlemania at your arena if you let AEW run in your town", would AEW try and fight back - but, if anything, I think they're prepared to let WWE make their own mistakes. 

[LaGoosh]

1 hour ago, Gay as FOOK said:

I believe they were expected to become profitable in 2020 off the back of their extended TV deal, right?

Tony Khan said in October that AEW was profitable. I'd imagine they aren't very profitable but I think that they even managed to survive the pandemic let alone maintain an audience figure TNT is happy with is a huge success. They were dangerously close to going under before they even got going.

As for papering audiences I think you have to expect that sort of thing from a new promotion running decent sized arenas in their first year when most people haven't heard of them. WWEs audience figures were terrible before the pandemic too. The crowds at AEW always seemed hot though. I think if they had had proper crowds this year for some of the angles and matches they've run the ratings would have had a massive increase and live attendance would have steadily gone up.

[Jackpot]

36 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

I was expecting a huge debut on every show, and we haven't had that

Apologies for selecting just the one snippet out of an excellent post but are there that many "huge" debuts to be had at the minute given where the wrestling world is in the grander world of reality. 

Even Sting, who has been their biggest surprise, is going to be known by the last four or five generations as that bloke from TNA who made an appearance or two in WWE. I was four when Nitro debuted and ten when it closed it's doors. So if you didn't get into wrestling until your teens then even as a 30 year old, Sting's run in WCW isn't anything you remember first hand. 

I think if anything they'd be better making their "own" stars (which as you said they have done) and rely on the celebrity appeal of a Snoop Dog or Shaq than debuting WWE's cast offs. I haven't watched WWE for ages so I don't know Miro from there but everybody seems disappointed with how he's gone in AEW. The likes of Sydal and Cardona aren't going to entice people in, probably less so if they remember their WWE runs. I think having Jericho on board early was a good move given his name value to wrestling fans but are there many other full-time wrestlers on WWE's books who'd get the world talking if they turned up on AEW? Or would it take a limited run from somebody like The Rock/Batista/Lesnar to create a real buzz?

[Chili]

1 hour ago, thevestofdeanambrose said:

What's your thoughts on Brian Pillman Jnr? Do you think they are going to go down the same route as his dad eventually with him snapping and going mad? 

He's alright, but still finding his way. 

I'm sure he'll do well and as long as he's not an arsehole he'll be fine. I have to say that while he's not done anything to really make him a favourite, I do smile when he hits that Air Pillman clothesline absolutely spot on like his old man. Moves like him too.

A Loose Cannon rehash. No, but if Bri Jr, went down that route it might be more as douchy cocky wanker, enough people have failed trying to do Brian Pillman.

[Tsurutagun]

27 minutes ago, Chili said:

He's alright, but still finding his way. 

I'm sure he'll do well and as long as he's not an arsehole he'll be fine. I have to say that while he's not done anything to really make him a favourite, I do smile when he hits that Air Pillman clothesline absolutely spot on like his old man. Moves like him too.

A Loose Cannon rehash. No, but if Bri Jr, went down that route it might be more as douchy cocky wanker, enough people have failed trying to do Brian Pillman.

I guess the reason is national exposure  and maybe more money, but moving from MLW where he was doing great to being in a jobber tag team seems one of the weirder career moves in wrestling history 

[garynysmon]

12 minutes ago, Tsurutagun said:

I guess the reason is national exposure  and maybe more money, but moving from MLW where he was doing great to being in a jobber tag team seems one of the weirder career moves in wrestling history 

I did think that initially. But the way things are going you wouldn't be surprised if he'll continue to do both, although he did ask for his MLW release didn't he? 

AEW don't seem to be that arsed in terms of exclusivity which, in a way, makes it potentially more attractive for would-be talent. (Although retaining priority I'd assume).

Would you necessarily go to the WWE if you were a top NWA/Impact wrestler if there was the option of potentially keeping your spot while also enjoying exposure in AEW, thus enjoying the best of both worlds?

Edited January 19, 2021 by garynysmon

[Merzbow]

MLW, as enjoyable as it can be to watch seems to be a bit of a hellhole, it's where the scum of the wrestling world gravitates towards so I'd rather be on team AEW even if it means tagging with Griff Garrison.