The AEW Wednesday Night Dynamite Thread

[Nick James]

How long until Jerichos buzzword catchphrases jump the shark? I get why they’re hawking god awful t-shirts with a rushed design, because the followers will buy them, but this shirt looks like one of the bootleg shirts they used to sell outside of Sheffield Arena on the 1993 tour.

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Nick James

[Vamp]

With all due respect to Kenny Omega, I don't think he could play a bad ass even if he wanted to (and he clearly doesn't want to).

I actually think AEW should be less interested in the 18-39 males and more interested in borrowing NJPW's focus on bringing in a female audience. 

Ultimately though, AEW isn't WCW. Its one of those money mark promotions dreamed up in the early 2000s except its actually become real. Bringing in Vickie Guerrero (random ex WWE talent who probably isn't going to add much to the product), bringing back random titles from ECW and letting the wrestlers book the divisions is just like the "wins and losses will matter," and the rankings and the video game that will take inspiration from No Mercy and the being on TNT, it's all stuff that promoters say they're going to do before they end up in one of Ian's old IndyWank threads. It's like someone has finally come along with enough money to break the unwritten laws of the universe and made it all actually happen. 

[RedRooster]

1 hour ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Absolutely.
He's a nerd. Wrestling fans are nerds. We want to see people we wish we could be who we can live vicariously through [Stonecold, The Rock etc] not some uncool, geeky, emotionally fragile, video-game nerd. I can look in the mirror if I wanted to see one of those. 

Do ‘we’ really though? I honestly think that is a dated idea. Wrestling audiences are very different than they were in the Attitude Era, and it just doesn’t seem sensible to ask someone to cheer for what might actually represent to them the person who picked on them at school.

The babyfaces who have actually had overwhelmingly positive reactions (outside of legacy stars and a few notable exceptions) have been relatable characters like Daniel Bryan, CM Punk and New Day. 

Heck, if you look at pop culture in general, relatable characters and underdogs are often at the forefront.

Perhaps some people do want to live vicariously through wrestlers, but I would argue that those people want someone who they think they could actually be. 

Not that there isn’t room for diversity, but I think the whole idea that a top babyface has to conform to this particular character type is nonsense.

The problem with Kenny, for me, is that for most of his AEW run he has been utterly unspectacular. Before the empty arena era it felt like they were starting to find some sort of groove with him, and it’s a shame that feels so distant.

[mikey]

My main takeaway from the show is that Moxley felt like the only true star to me.

[Michael_3165]

14 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Do ‘we’ really though? I honestly think that is a dated idea. Wrestling audiences are very different than they were in the Attitude Era, and it just doesn’t seem sensible to ask someone to cheer for what might actually represent to them the person who picked on them at school.

The babyfaces who have actually had overwhelmingly positive reactions (outside of legacy stars and a few notable exceptions) have been relatable characters like Daniel Bryan, CM Punk and New Day. 

Heck, if you look at pop culture in general, relatable characters and underdogs are often at the forefront.

Perhaps some people do want to live vicariously through wrestlers, but I would argue that those people want someone who they think they could actually be. 

Not that there isn’t room for diversity, but I think the whole idea that a top babyface has to conform to this particular character type is nonsense.

The problem with Kenny, for me, is that for most of his AEW run he has been utterly unspectacular. Before the empty arena era it felt like they were starting to find some sort of groove with him, and it’s a shame that feels so distant.

Just wonder if we want every men why are the ratings in the toilet. Every year they get worse. The biggest boom periods were led by a huge hero and a badass. Neither were like the fans. 

[I Bent My Wookie]

By all accounts, even for low viewership they just smashed NXT as well based off this weeks figures.

[WyattSheepMask]

1 hour ago, Nick James said:

How long until Jerichos buzzword catchphrases jump the shark? I get why they’re hawking god awful t-shirts with a rushed design, because the followers will buy them, but this shirt looks like one of the bootleg shirts they used to sell outside of Sheffield Arena on the 1993 tour.

 

Jericho’s Phrase of the Week going on sale every Thursday morning is the kind of shit why some still call AEW a t-shirt company. I get that merch is a big part of the game, but you take a look at ShopAEW and you’ll see that people will buy any old shite

[TildeGuy~!]

1 hour ago, Vamp said:

I actually think AEW should be less interested in the 18-39 males and more interested in borrowing NJPW's focus on bringing in a female audience. 

It helps when you have a ton of handsome bastards on your roster.

[RedRooster]

44 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said:

Just wonder if we want every men why are the ratings in the toilet. Every year they get worse. The biggest boom periods were led by a huge hero and a badass. Neither were like the fans. 

I don’t mean this in a dickish way, but the reason rating figures are - as you put it - ‘in the toilet’ is clearly not because Kenny Omega isn’t being booked as a badass.

There are a whole load of factors to consider - COVID, disjointed booking, and inconsistent characters. 

Obviously the kind of character you’re talking about can work, just look at Adam Page, but it’s certainly not a prerequisite, nor is it a quick fix to a damaged product. 

[Michael_3165]

33 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

I don’t mean this in a dickish way, but the reason rating figures are - as you put it - ‘in the toilet’ is clearly not because Kenny Omega isn’t being booked as a badass.

There are a whole load of factors to consider - COVID, disjointed booking, and inconsistent characters. 

Obviously the kind of character you’re talking about can work, just look at Adam Page, but it’s certainly not a prerequisite, nor is it a quick fix to a damaged product. 

I was actually more talking about raw. Both sides aren't all that great but my point remains. 

Badass hero's have worked for decades. Nobody is believable anymore cept lesnar. 

[NavigatorFan]

Some interesting chat here, love the UKFF for that. 

I agree it was a weak show that really shouldn't have been. AEW have all the tools, and I like the fact it all feels a bit different with different people booking different segments but it needs Someone to quality/continuity check the show. Omega getting drenched should not have been on the same show as Jericho getting drenched. The world championship match should have run semi main to give it that unpredictable feeling... When the bell rings 18 minutes before the show ends it kinda kills it. Having the jericho promo after the title match with some kind of aftermath of cage/taz would be better imo... Although maybe not for ratings/demo! 

 

I think Omegas main problem is lack of promo time to flesh out his character. I don't watch BTE and I'm sure it'd make more sense if I did but they have to put at least something on the main show, even just every few weeks to tie up loose ends. Same with Cody, I don't know why he's acting a bit heelish, Arn seems disgruntled about it but who knows if that will continue next week. 

 

Overall though I still enjoyed this week's show more than almost every episode of Raw in the last decade. I love how we all critique it every week and we'll never be completely happy whatever they do... And on a week like this we forget to mention that the tag match, 6 man tag, opener and main event were all pretty decent really 

[RedRooster]

8 hours ago, Michael_3165 said:

I was actually more talking about raw. Both sides aren't all that great but my point remains. 

Badass hero's have worked for decades. Nobody is believable anymore cept lesnar. 

Well in that case, you're going a little off topic - this is an AEW thread. 

My final point on this (for that reason) - not every top babyface has fit the narrow mould you're trying to suggest they do/should (Hulk Hogan, John Cena and Bret Hart were all completely different to Steve Austin) and if history did keep repeating itself, and promoters did keep doing the same thing over and over, things would feel repetitive and dull. 

Is there a place for that kind of character? Sure. Is that what Kenny Omega has to be? Of course not. Is his current character a bit crap? Yeah. But that in itself is not the source of their problem. 

AEW simply hasn't managed to string together a long enough run of consistently good episodes to build any sort of momentum, and they fall back to bad habits far too frequently.

They also drop storylines without adequate explanation far too often, and cycle through character at a stupid rate. 

What happened with Anna Jay and The Dark Order? She went away with them and hasn't been heard from since. Did they murder her? What are we supposed to believe?

Dropping The Nightmare Collective was the right move, but they did so in a dream sequence on Youtube, so loads of people will have questions about that. 

What's the status of Pac's relationship with the Lucha Bros? I know the pandemic affected that one, but short of that one Pac video, their partnership hasn't been referenced again. 

What happened to Shawn Spears and his search for a tag partner?

Where's Abadon? What about Ricky Starks? Why not follow up on their stories and allow them to build some momentum? What happened to Riho, has she left the company? If so, why on earth did they crown her their first women's Champion? Ordinarily I'd assume her absence was pandemic related, but she rarely appeared even before that point. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by RedRooster

[TildeGuy~!]

19 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

 

What happened to Riho, has she left the company? If so, why on earth did they crown her their first women's Champion? Ordinarily I'd assume her absence was pandemic related, but she rarely appeared even before that point. 

She’s not there due to the pandemic plus she’s not on an exclusive contract like all the other Joshi’s they book(apart from Shida) so she is currently working dates for Stardom back in Japan

Edited July 17, 2020 by TildeGuy~!

[Snitsky's back acne]

11 hours ago, RedRooster said:

Do ‘we’ really though? I honestly think that is a dated idea. 

 

Ratings say otherwise.

Wrestling has always been its most popular when it's had wrestlers who people could look at and go 'That guy's a superhero / a bad-ass / cool as fuck' [Hogan, Flair, Rock, Austin etc]. 'We' can kid ourselves and go 'people don't want to see that anymore' but the general consensus based on the amount of people watching over the past 5 years or so vs in the past shows that 'we' don't want to see geeky, 'normal' wrestlers who can put on great matches.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Snitsky's back acne

[BomberPat]

47 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

if history did keep repeating itself, and promoters did keep doing the same thing over and over, things would feel repetitive and dull. 

and if it were that simple, everyone would be doing it. 

If having a bad-ass superhero you can live vicariously through was a guaranteed route to success, then every promotion ever would book their top star that way, and it would always be an unmitigated success. But people clearly didn't want that when Roman Reigns was booked in that position. They didn't want an all-American superhero in 1995 when Lex Luger was in that position, even though years of Hogan on top would tell you that's what audiences wanted.

There's a story Meltzer used to tell of an NWA meeting, where all the promoters are arguing over who should be the next champ, and someone says they need to be a good talker or they won't draw money, at which point The Sheik stands up and says that he's drawn more money than anyone in the room without ever saying a single word. 

You have to look at broader cultural trends - Hogan, and assorted other muscleheads, were on top in the '80s and early '90s when action movies were coming into their own as a genre; Hogan's first run with the WWF runs pretty much alongside Arnie's success, with Hogan's first title win falling between the first two Conan movies, the first Wrestlemania being the same year as Commando, and Hogan's stepping away from the WWF, and then surfacing in WCW, coincide with Schwarzanegger's movies (and, by extension, that variant on the action genre) becoming more self-aware and self-affacing; Last Action Hero, Junior etc., and Hogan's heel turn sits alongside Jingle All The Way and Batman & Robin, where Arnie had really ceased to be all that culturally relevant for a few years. Similarly, Hogan's run sat alongside the original run of He-Man - big bodybuilder physiques were presented as heroic and saleable across pop culture, and when that ceased to be the norm, bodybuilders stopped being as big a draw as they had been previously.

Steve Austin was on top in the '90s, and Bret Hart before him, at a time when action movies were more about an everyman caught in a dangerous situation - Armageddon, Jurassic Park, the Die Hard sequels, Speed, and so on. Steve Austin was never an aspirational character, he was an ordinary working man doing aspirational things -  how many times have you heard someone like Bruce Prichard say that Austin vs. McMahon worked because everyone wants to beat up their boss? That wouldn't have worked with Hogan, because they wouldn't have seen themselves in Hogan. Similarly, outside of movies, the '90s was all about edgy anti-heroes, performative anti-establishment gestures, and so on, and Austin fit right in with that.

In the last 10 years, Hollywood has been dominated by superhero movies, but of a particular flavour. Marvel superheroes are nerdy pop culture signifiers, not muscled all-American heroes. Kenny Omega, as a character, has far more in common with Iron Man or Spider-Man than with an '80s or '90s action hero; those characters are nerds, and they appeal to nerds. Yet no one's suggesting that Spider-Man can't carry a movie or hold an audience's interest because he's too much of a geek - that is, and always has been, his selling point; he's a relatable nerdy kid who, when he becomes Spider-Man, can do incredible things. There's no reason Kenny Omega can't be that, and can't be a star doing it - but he hasn't, thus far, been positioned as a top star, and I think that's by design. It's weird that we get hung up on ideas of whether or not Kenny Omega is behaving like a main event talent when there's little evidence that he's even being booked on that level in the first place.