David Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 51 minutes ago, BomberPat said: You can make the argument that it's a strategy, all a long game to not rock the boat and let the Tories lose the election rather than fighting to win it, but that's a recipe for voter apathy - nobody rushes out to the polls to vote for boring. Couldn't it be that we see a similar thing to what happened in the US though? The choice of the mentalist got into power, then once the novelty wore off everyone wanted the boring, bland "steadying hand" of Joe Biden. I know the idea of Biden being those things is ridiculous, but he was seen as that compared to Trump. It could be that Starmer would be seen as a return to "business as usual" after we had our own mini-mentalist moment with (don't call him) Boris? A boring, bland politician. Which, if we're honest, is exactly what politicians should be. If a politician's personality isn't as grey as his or her suit there's scope for disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted July 8, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2022 There is that, but Starmer no longer has the "mentalist" to run against. Unless somehow Michael Fabricunt ends up prime minister the Tories will have their own safe pair of hands in charge. They do at least need to see how Starmer can do through a general election though. The tories campaign would probably be about the fence sitting, and their ability to actually pick a side. If he gets beaten in a GE, whenever that may be, the it's time for him to go and see who's waiting in the wings, but I can't see him doing as well against a not-Johnson then he has been doing the last few years. Hopefully he can realise this and start to show some leadership, but we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted July 8, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, David said: Couldn't it be that we see a similar thing to what happened in the US though? The choice of the mentalist got into power, then once the novelty wore off everyone wanted the boring, bland "steadying hand" of Joe Biden. I know the idea of Biden being those things is ridiculous, but he was seen as that compared to Trump. It could be that Starmer would be seen as a return to "business as usual" after we had our own mini-mentalist moment with (don't call him) Boris? A boring, bland politician. Which, if we're honest, is exactly what politicians should be. If a politician's personality isn't as grey as his or her suit there's scope for disaster. I think that's absolutely the strategy, yeah. I'm just not convinced it works, especially if the Tories end up with a more palatable person in charge that the press can get behind as a reforming influence and a fresh face before the next general election. A presentable and moderate leader of the Conservatives will pretty much render whatever "boring and sensible" qualities Starmer brings to the table moot, and he'll struggle to make criticisms of the Tories under Johnson stick on a new leader. My criticisms of Starmer aren't that he has no personality - I like my politicians boring and competent outside of the campaign trail - but that he has no coherent politics. I don't trust a single thing he says or offers, because it all seems focus grouped to within an inch of its life. Boring and stable business as usual centrism might get the job done against a Boris Johnson or a Donald Trump, but that's a one-off, it's never been a winning strategy for Labour before. And, as with Biden, the worry is that by offering stability and normality, you just let things fester and don't affect meaningful change, and then you run the risk of whatever comes next being far worse than Trump or Johnson's first terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 It's absolutely a risk for sure, but I'm not really sure Labour can do anything different at the moment. As you say, even the appearance of internal turbulence within the party, such as the hint of switching leadership will give the right-wing media outlets a chance to switch the narrative, which would be counter-productive. It's a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted July 8, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2022 On a side note, Starmer and Rayner have been cleared by Durham Police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Hannibal Scorch said: On a side note, Starmer and Rayner have been cleared by Durham Police. A hell of a political gamble and it’s paid off.  It’s no use now against Johnson, but he can still use it against whichever Tory takes over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavemanLynn Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Loki said: A hell of a political gamble and it’s paid off.  It’s no use now against Johnson, but he can still use it against whichever Tory takes over. This has weirdly cheered me up. So much was made of the Tories' control over the Met in recent months, I'd assumed any police action would go in their favour. Even if the wheels were falling off within the party, there was always the network around them to prop them up. Seeing this not go their way, even if it is less- or un-related, puts a smile on my face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Reckon he's the next leader. And if so, Starmer and Labour are fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Dunno. He got fined like Johnson did so that’s massively against him. Plus he is shit, and of course, he may be the wealthiest MP but he isn’t the whitest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted July 8, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2022 19 minutes ago, David said: Reckon he's the next leader. And if so, Starmer and Labour are fucked. Hard disagree, he's too tied to Johnson in the public perception, unless they go with a fresh face who isn't seen as part of the Johnson/Covid/Partygate era Labour are in a strong position. If they go for Penny Morduant you can expect the papers to go full "Iron Lady 2.0" (and her Dad was a Paratrooper which will please the flag nonces) and Labour might be in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, mim731 said: If they go for Penny Morduant you can expect the papers to go full "Iron Lady 2.0" (and her Dad was a Paratrooper which will please the flag nonces) and Labour might be in trouble. If voters continue the pattern of picking whoever's initials sound most familiar, she's a shoo-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members stumobir Posted July 8, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2022 It’ll be MI6 Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Interestingly, it appears that the domain name for Sunaks  leadership bid was registered six months ago. And rather hilariously, Some old tweets from Ben Wallace make for interesting reading.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 Off to a good start! Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted July 8, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2022 53 minutes ago, David said: Reckon he's the next leader. And if so, Starmer and Labour are fucked. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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