Paid Members gmoney Posted May 1, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted May 1, 2020 I expect he's been bounty hunted before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted May 1, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted May 1, 2020 The weird thing about 'protecting the business' is how stupid it is, especially in hindsight. It's one thing to keep the secrets of how you do it, but the way they tried to make out that 'oh no, what we do is REAL' is such a strange, bullshit call looking back. Seen some people talking about it on twitter recently, but over the decades, you had a load of comedy stuff being done in the mainstream that only made sense if the audience knew wrestling was fake. In the UK, you had an episode of Are You Being Served with Jackie Pallo calling spots, but going back to the 50s, Bob Hope was making jokes about wrestling being fake on the first televised Oscars. Going back even further, in 1941, you have the TRAILER for a pretty big movie making a clear 'it's fake' gag.  My point here is that 'protecting the business' becoming somehow about desperately pretending it was real wasn't really about protecting the business. It was about the weird, fragile masculinity of the guys doing it, who seemed to be desperate to believe that what they were doing wasn't as silly as it actually was. It's always been about suspending disbelief, not actually believing. Looking back at so much of this, especially in the Vice series, just makes it look like such a weird, pathetic approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted May 2, 2020 Moderators Share Posted May 2, 2020 I saw a great point elsewhere, which is essentially everyone in the business cheering all that time ago and still talking about how great it is Dr D slapped stossel and protected the business pretty much martyred him but left him out to dry and maybe they should have looked after him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted May 2, 2020 Moderators Share Posted May 2, 2020 It was CM Punk of all people   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeronimoJacksBeard Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Chris B said: The weird thing about 'protecting the business' is how stupid it is, especially in hindsight. It's one thing to keep the secrets of how you do it, but the way they tried to make out that 'oh no, what we do is REAL' is such a strange, bullshit call looking back. My point here is that 'protecting the business' becoming somehow about desperately pretending it was real wasn't really about protecting the business. It was about the weird, fragile masculinity of the guys doing it, who seemed to be desperate to believe that what they were doing wasn't as silly as it actually was. It's always been about suspending disbelief, not actually believing. Looking back at so much of this, especially in the Vice series, just makes it look like such a weird, pathetic approach. The second paragraph - it certainly evolved into that over time and that behaviour still certainly exists in some places, in some forms even today. The origin of that behaviour surely comes from it starting out as a con, working 'marks' out of money. In that regard, it literally was a case of protecting their 'business' and the first sentence of that last paragraph not entirely accurate.  Those videos are great by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted May 2, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted May 2, 2020 While I get that, once it became wrestling as we know and love, it was a different game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Thing I find with wrestling is people go out their way to spoil people’s suspension of disbelief like they shouldn’t act like it’s real when watching for entertainment. Most things we watch are fiction, but you don’t get folk slagging others for watching coronation street, eastenders or even in a sporting content the fights in Rocky being pre determined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted May 2, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted May 2, 2020 10 hours ago, Chris B said:  My point here is that 'protecting the business' becoming somehow about desperately pretending it was real wasn't really about protecting the business. It was about the weird, fragile masculinity of the guys doing it, who seemed to be desperate to believe that what they were doing wasn't as silly as it actually was.  that could apply to the wrestlers and even fans who lose their shit when someone dares to throw out the word 'fake' now. Saw it recently with the whole Ronda thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanky316 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Louch said: Thing I find with wrestling is people go out their way to spoil people’s suspension of disbelief like they shouldn’t act like it’s real when watching for entertainment. Most things we watch are fiction, but you don’t get folk slagging others for watching coronation street, eastenders or even in a sporting content the fights in Rocky being pre determined. A lot in common with soaps to be honest, soap actors seem to regularly get death threats for things their characters have done which goes along with stories of heels in bygone eras. Wrestling just seems to attract an extra air of snobbishness with the perception from people without an interest in it assuming wrestling fans must believe it's real rather than it just being light entertainment. Edited May 2, 2020 by lanky316 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamura Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Is there any evidence Schultz really was black balled, other than Schultz himself thinking it? I just don't buy the whole "McMahon told other promoters not to hire me, otherwise he wouldn't work with them" argument, as at the time McMahon was more interested in poaching talent and TV slots than working with other promoters. You'd think with the media furore Schultz created some of the bigger promotions still going at that point would have been able to capitalise on it to draw some money. According to his RF shoot interview Schultz was getting $1,500 a night on the smaller indies, and wasn't willing to drop his price to go and work for the bigger promotions. The black balled story seems to be a revisionist attempt to explain why his career just fizzled out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted May 2, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) There was a "Wrestling Is Fake" exposé, including quotes from promoters, reported in Texas newspapers as early as the 1930s, and Jack Pfefer publicly exposed the business in New York around the same time. The question was being asked for decades before that. The idea that the public at large thought wrestling was real in the 1980s is complete revisionist history. "Protecting the business" has always been about insecure headcases not being able to live with the fact that people didn't think they were hard men. Edited May 2, 2020 by BomberPat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Linus Posted May 2, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted May 2, 2020 Is it not about respect? Like, we all know that wrestling isn't totally real but to accuse wrestlers of being fake shows a total lack of respect and deserves contempt? No-one storms into a performance of Cats shouting about how they're not real felines, do they? But wrestling seems to be fair game for people to play the "well, actually..." card and I think a slap is deserved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted May 2, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted May 2, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Linus said: Is it not about respect? Like, we all know that wrestling isn't totally real but to accuse wrestlers of being fake shows a total lack of respect and deserves contempt? No-one storms into a performance of Cats shouting about how they're not real felines, do they? But wrestling seems to be fair game for people to play the "well, actually..." card and I think a slap is deserved... But they don't pretend to be real. You don't see actors going out and making out they're really [character name from cats], and taking offence at being called their real first name. And some great stage magicians have made a point of going out and uncovering hoaxes (like Randi and Houdini), rather than desperately trying to make out that illusions are actually their genuine magic powers. Insisting on doing all of that in the name of respect is silly. And taking offence when people don't play by your made-up, secret rules is silly. Edited May 2, 2020 by Chris B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted May 2, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted May 2, 2020 19 hours ago, Chris B said: In the UK, you had an episode of Are You Being Served with Jackie Pallo calling spots Didn’t he release a book around that time (you grunt, I'll groan?) which was open about how wrestling worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted May 2, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Linus said: Is it not about respect? Like, we all know that wrestling isn't totally real but to accuse wrestlers of being fake shows a total lack of respect and deserves contempt? No-one storms into a performance of Cats shouting about how they're not real felines, do they? But wrestling seems to be fair game for people to play the "well, actually..." card and I think a slap is deserved... I don't think it's a fair analogy as the actors in Cats don't go on pretending to be cats once they get off-stage. I just think the "fake" question gets treated entirely the wrong way. Nothing embarrasses me more as a wrestling fan, or as someone involved in wrestling, then other fans trying to rush to wrestling's defence, usually by quoting a WWF "Don't Try This At Home" video verbatim. When people try and defend it against being "fake", they almost invariably jump to listing examples of people getting hurt in the ring, of injuries and accidents - which effectively amounts to "it's real when it goes wrong", which frankly could be true of fucking anything. The correct response to "it's all fake, you know" shouldn't be much more than "yes, and?". Rushing to wrestling's defence as being not "fake" just perpetuates the stereotype that wrestling fans are dumb marks who don't realise it's not real. As for how wrestlers respond to it, yeah, it can be extremely insulting to have your livelihood and your life's work dismissed as "fake". But the defence isn't to make yourself look like a bigger idiot and a bully by beating someone up outside of the context of pro-wrestling. A wrestler beating you up in a bar fight does nothing at all to prove the legitimacy of wrestling, but does everything to massage that wrestler's hurt feelings by allowing him to brag that he's still a real hard man, even if he just does the fake fighting for a living. The entire industry spent decades having an inferiority complex about not being taken seriously as real fighters, while staging fights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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