Awards Moderator Onyx2 Posted January 17, 2019 Awards Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, JNLister said: If anyone's wondering why the votes don't add up to 650, you had: 325 voting against 307 voting for Or if you like, 52% voted to remain with the prime minister, 48% voted to leave the prime minister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 17, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, JNLister said: 7 Sinn Fein don't vote I don't have any direct problem with Sinn Fein in their current incarnation, but given the era we're in now, I couldn't help but be a bit dismayed when the SDLP lost all their seats to them; I was really hoping it'd be the other way round. They're Norn Iron's other left-wing party, but unlike SF, they're not beholden to the principle (and public perception of their voters) that they absolutely cannot swear allegiance to the crown, so they could take their seats in Parliament and actually cause problems for both the Tories and DUP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted January 17, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2019 The Tories, rightly or wrongly (wrongly!) present themselves as the party of business & economic responsibility. If they choose to avoidably crash out without a deal that image is done. The only thing they'd have left is 'We're not Labour'. Which at the moment is probably enough tbf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 17, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Dead Mike said: The Tories, rightly or wrongly (wrongly!) present themselves as the party of business & economic responsibility. If they choose to avoidably crash out without a deal that image is done. The only thing they'd have left is 'We're not Labour'. Which at the moment is probably enough tbf. This is what really gets me. I'm not a massive Labour supporter, but this notion that Labour in their current incarnation as a relatively-socialist-for-mainstream party is automatically worse than this current shower of shit, whatever they do, does my head in. Also, I'm not surprised at it, but the hypocrisy of the right-wing Brexiters is really quite bare-faced: always going on about Labour's "magic money tree", but they're doing the same thing with their fucking "Believe In Britain And Brexit Will Work" bullshit. I said earlier in the thread that my main problem with the Brexiters is that, despite whining about it for forty years, they haven't put forward any actual workable models, case studies, research, white papers, and so on, choosing to simply harness nationalism and wave the Union Jack. Brexit could definitely be made to work, but it would require a lot of effort, a lot of intelligence, and a lot of time - and I don't trust any of the right-wingers driving it to even remember to breathe between wanks, let alone manage the successful exit of this country from the EU. I'd trust the left-wingers, because they'd approach it from a less adversarial and damaging angle, but they're a minority in this and in nowhere near a position to take charge of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Blaming Corbyn for the Tories mess is as predictable as May talking bollocks. It's been the strategy for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted January 17, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2019 He's damned if he does and he's damned if he doesn't, though. If he attends this meeting May's asked for he's setting himself up to get blamed for anything in a deal that the media don't like about it. If he stays away he'll get blamed for not co-operating when he was asked to. At least by not attending he's got the defence of it all being on May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted January 17, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Carbomb said: I don't have any direct problem with Sinn Fein in their current incarnation, but given the era we're in now, I couldn't help but be a bit dismayed when the SDLP lost all their seats to them; I was really hoping it'd be the other way round. They're Norn Iron's other left-wing party, but unlike SF, they're not beholden to the principle (and public perception of their voters) that they absolutely cannot swear allegiance to the crown, so they could take their seats in Parliament and actually cause problems for both the Tories and DUP. I agree with that. Its quite problematic that the DUP (and one unionist Independent) is northern Ireland's sole voice in Westminster. I've seen countless videos on social media made by republicans deriding the SDLP's decision to take the oath in order to take their seats and can see why that alone would be problematic within the community and admire Sinn Fein for sticking to their guns. But on the flipside, it can't be good to have no nationalist (even soft nationalist) voices when the only members we hear speaking are DUP ones who happily ignore the fact that the province voted to remain and that the bulk of business leaders are supportive of the backstop. The DUP are fucking scumbags. Every time I see Nigel Dodds I want to stick my foot through the telly. Edited January 17, 2019 by garynysmon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted January 18, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 18, 2019 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46843631 - Pharmacists warn of a 'surge' in shortage of common medicines This has been pretty much my life for the past 10 months. Approx 75% of all medicine comes via the EU (either finished or component), the Government asked manufacturers & distributors to hold an extra 6 weeks stock (on top of normal levels), the average stock holding on the most prescribed lines is 10 days! There isn’t enough cold chain storage in the UK for temp controlled drugs & 3rd party warehousing costs have shot up as other industries (food) have also started stock-piling. These costs will be passed on to the customer (the NHS). Distributors have been instructed to prevent pharmacies from stock-piling (and profiteering) by essentially rationing supply to pharmacies based on average prescription rates. If a small local pharmacy has prescribed more than usual of a certain drug then they’ll have to wait. The biggest thing is the fact that no EU country holds enough stock of every drug for every eventuality. Supply chains & lean and efficient due to the frictionless movement of goods we’ve enjoyed for decades. Measles outbreak in Germany? Just transfer some stock from other countries. It can leave a warehouse in the UK on Monday, be with a German distributor by Wednesday & in the hands of patients by Thursday. These supply chains have been developed over decades to keep cost down (drugs are essentially perishable goods). The idea we can undo & replace these processes in a couple of years is laughable. I sat in a Brexit meeting a few weeks ago with our procurement & supply chain director. Someone asked if there were any benefits at all from this. Aside from the opportunity to profiteer from ‘No Deal’ shortages, which was roundly shot down as the cost to reputation isn’t worth the short term monetary win the answer is No. He said his elderly mum is on a bunch of pills & his & ours #1 priority is to try & ensure there aren’t avoidable deaths. The questions will be ‘Do you know someone who relies on a repeat prescription? How long can they wait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) A key point in all of this is that Theresa May doesn't actually want to see Britain leave the EU. There seems to be a lot of people (not necessarily on this forum) who are under the belief that she's wanting out and would happily take a "no deal" exit if it was available. She campaigned, albeit not all that vocally, in favour of remain, didn't she? It makes perfect sense that the 'Tories in general would fuck this up, because they have, and always will, value the beliefs and opinions of big business over what the plebs have to say. And leaving the EU isn't good for business or the markets. It's already been said that we can delay Brexit beyond this summer without actually taking part in European elections, and I think that's what's going to happen. There's talk of an election waiver of some sort, a one-page protocol that could (and probably would) be put through reasonably quickly. My money, if I was a betting man, is that this carry-on will rumble on for quite some time yet. And I wouldn't bet against the entire thing being scrapped after a quickly put together 2nd vote down the line that will most likely see a remain vote win the day. If we're honest, the complete shambles that this has turned into could be enough to have knocked the wind out of all but the most staunch of leavers, and that will be even further exacerbated by more ridiculous shenanigans that have yet to come no doubt. At that point its job done for the 'Tories. They get the result that they actually want for the most part, but will likely see none of the blame, as the finger will be firmly pointed in the direction of the Labour party for not cooperating, and the SNP in Scotland for being opportunistic in their attempt for another independence vote. And then? We'll see May retire and go on to make decent coin doing whatever it is people like her do, we'll likely see a few low key amendments from the EU to make sure that this kind of thing won't happen again, and the UK will be even more divided than ever before, with the liberal middle classes continuing to sneer at the great unwashed who are too stupid to know what they're doing when it comes to important matters like politics. All the while the upper classes will do what they do best, which is sit back, chuckle like fuck at the middle and lower classes fighting with each other while they rake in the coin from the upticks in the financial markets that will follow a steadying of the ship. Edited January 18, 2019 by David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Quote There seems to be a lot of people (not necessarily on this forum) who are under the belief that she's wanting out and would happily take a "no deal" exit if it was available. She doesn't, but she's pandering and has pandered to the hardliners in her party who she's terrified of. She, like all Tories, are party over country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 21, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted January 21, 2019 The danger of Theresa May as a "Remainer" (which is a notion that's hard to give much credit to, given that she was invisible during the referendum, she basically only nominally took sides) is that she isn't ideologically tied to any of the reasons for Brexit, but she does have a long political career of bigotry and petty xenophobia. I'd say she's far more dangerous than having an arch-Brexiteer at the helm because all she wants from Brexit is to end freedom of movement, and to not fuck up the entire process.  Had a minor argument in a pub on Saturday, as someone was talking about how Jersey got the best deal out of the EU in the first place by getting "all of the benefits, but not signing up to freedom of movement", and how Brexit was going to go tits-up and they'd end up "stuck with freedom of movement, when that's what we all voted against". I asked if it said "freedom of movement" on the ballot paper, and he replied, "that's what it was all about, though". As everyone with any sense has known since the referendum was called, it's completely impossible for the result to please anyone, as everybody has their own (invented) idea as to what they were even voting for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Teedy Kay Posted February 18, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted February 18, 2019 Well these seven 'rebels' are fucking idiots, you knew Chuka was going to be one of them. I truly do not understand how anyone can get up on stage and question the current Labour regime going against the traditional Labour values. Does a By-Election have to happen? Can one be forced? It's a true quandary if you were one if constituents involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted February 18, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted February 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, Teedy Kay said: Well these seven 'rebels' are fucking idiots, you knew Chuka was going to be one of them. I truly do not understand how anyone can get up on stage and question the current Labour regime going against the traditional Labour values. Does a By-Election have to happen? Can one be forced? It's a true quandary if you were one if constituents involved. Is the traditional Labour values to be anti-semetic? Because that is one of the key issues at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Teedy Kay Posted February 18, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted February 18, 2019 Not according to Chris Leslie it wasn't, Berger had to pretty much tactical cough to get him say the words anti-semetism in his dire speech. Looking at the rules, I can't see a way for the constuencies involved to seek a by-election. I'd be fucking furious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted February 18, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted February 18, 2019 New topic ffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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