Brexit

[Brewster McCloud]

1 hour ago, Factotum said:

I think Boris has been thoroughly exposed by now though. The whole 'HE'S A LEDGE MATE! PAXMAN FOR PM' brigade seems to have gone away in regards to him.

Well, yes. He was one of the instigators of this shambles and he should be brought to book about it. He's little more than a carny, spouting shite that he thought might get him into the top job. But that's gone now. I've admired the Conservative party in the past, not as a raging Tory, but because I thought they had rational beliefs behind many of their policies. Now? Fuck them. The only troulble is that the opposition can't muster much in response. 

[David]

1 hour ago, Factotum said:

I think Boris has been thoroughly exposed by now though. The whole 'HE'S A LEDGE MATE! PAXMAN FOR PM' brigade seems to have gone away in regards to him.

You think so? The tabloids are "bigging him up" as the favourite to replace May in the new year, with the likes of the Daily Mail and The Sun regularly publishing articles that show him in a positive light.

He may have been exposed in political circles, but while he's still a bit of a darling with the tabloids he'll always be there or thereabouts unfortunately.

[Keith Houchen]

Tabloid readers don't decide the leader though, you have to be a tory member.

[gmoney]

There's quite an arcane system for nominating Tory leaders as well, which mean Boris would most likely be blocked from getting on the final ballot by MPs. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by gmoney

[Keith Houchen]

I know the horse has bolted but can we as a nation stop calling him "Boris" like he is some lovable caricature buffoon?  Even his family don't call him Boris.

[David]

15 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Tabloid readers don't decide the leader though, you have to be a tory member.

Maybe not, but any party that wants to see success would do well to keep an eye on who's proving popular with the masses. We all know that people should vote for their particular MP and on actual policies, but it's a popularity contest in reality.

 

[gmoney]

5 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I know the horse has bolted but can we as a nation stop calling him "Boris" like he is some lovable caricature buffoon?  Even his family don't call him Boris.

You are quite right. I'm appalled with myself. 

[Factotum]

On 12/13/2018 at 7:07 AM, quote the raven said:

Maybe not, but any party that wants to see success would do well to keep an eye on who's proving popular with the masses. We all know that people should vote for their particular MP and on actual policies, but it's a popularity contest in reality.

Not at all when it comes to him. There are Tory MPs willing to leave the party if he becomes leader. He's toxic in that party.

[David]

4 minutes ago, Factotum said:

Not at all when it comes to him. There are Tory MPs willing to leave the party if he becomes leader. He's toxic in that party.

Depends if those MP's actually want to win an election in future. As I said, when people are undecided (and there isn't much between the top two parties at the moment) they go with the more popular candidate.

I would pretty much put my house on the Tories winning an election if it was Boris up against Corbyn.

[Factotum]

Nah. No chance for him in my opinion. He wont get on the ballot. He knows he wont. Its why he throws all that shit despite not coming up with a plan himself. He doesn't need to and never will.

[Keith Houchen]

Johnson had two statements ready for after the referendum and tories know that isn’t something a leader would do. 

[JNLister]

1 hour ago, David said:

I would pretty much put my house on the Tories winning an election if it was Boris up against Corbyn.

What counts as winning? Most votes, most seats, or forming a government?

[JNLister]

Good summary by Stephen Bush of the New Statesman of the complete impasse we've been in for months:

 

The PM is seeking a logical impossibility: the point of the backstop is to provide a guarantee that, regardless of what happens in the talks, there will not be a hard border on the island of Ireland. That means that it cannot, by definition, be time-limited or have a unilateral right of exit for the United Kingdom.

The Irish government has a veto on the terms of the final trade agreement, and no Irish Taoiseach could sign a trade deal that puts a hard border on the island of Ireland - the economic damage of no deal will always be a better proposition than the political damage of that deal whichever party is in office in Ireland. 

But Conservative opponents of the backstop will never accept a deal that keeps the United Kingdom within the regulatory orbit of the European Union indefinitely. That means that the only way to pass the withdrawal agreement is to soften Brexit to get support from other parties, something May has no inclination to do, or to offer a second referendum. But no-one should rule out the possibility that the United Kingdom ends up with a no deal exit instead. 

[quote the raven]

1 hour ago, Factotum said:

Not at all when it comes to him. There are Tory MPs willing to leave the party if he becomes leader. He's toxic in that party.

Just want to say I didn’t say that 

its quoted me as the poster I think it was David 

Edited December 14, 2018 by quote the raven

[David]

13 minutes ago, JNLister said:

What counts as winning? Most votes, most seats, or forming a government?

What counts as winning? Forming a Government, obviously.