Brexit

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

Cameron only called the referendum to try and quell the internal fighting in the Tory party. He thought he would win the referendum and shut up Boris and co at the same time. Cameron is wholly to blame for having the referendum in the first place. He also said if he lost he would remain as PM. He was gone before the last votes had been counted. This is all his fault. 

[Carbomb]

6 minutes ago, RancidPunx said:

I’m an Irishman so forgive me if my perception isn’t accurate .

 

But why the hate towards Cameron. Surely Farrage etc are the ones deserving of the hate.

 

Cameron kept his promise to have a referendum, he expected that a leave vote would be a mess and quit as it wasn’t something he wanted to do anyway.

 

Not sitrrring the pot but it doesn’t seem to an outsider like he did anything wholey wrong. Except maybe promising to have a referendum but surely the fact that “Leave” won means that he was right to have that referendum ?

The hate's for five reasons:

1. He's a Tory.

2. He's a Tory.

3. He only agreed to have the referendum because he wanted to pander to the far-right and the UKIP-leaning elements of the Conservative Party and bring them "back into the fold", so to speak - he basically put party politics before the national interest.

4. He completely fucked the referendum. He (like many others) was so sure that Remain would win, he just said "Right, here's the referendum, two answers" - no clarification as to what a Brexit would actually look like should the referendum go that way, enabling the far-right to hijack the result and treat it like a zero-sum game in which the winners got to dictate everything and ignore the concerns of the losing side, saying "LEAVE MEANS LEAVE EVERYBODY VOTED TO LEAVE THAT MEANS HARD BREXIT NO DEAL".

5. Having left us in this fucking situation that he brought about because of petty concerns, he then fucked off with the excuse he couldn't deliver Brexit because he was a Remainer. Basically, he bit off more than he could chew, then spat it out and left everyone else to chew it.

[Factotum]

Quote

He completely fucked the referendum. He (like many others) was so sure that Remain would win, he just said "Right, here's the referendum, two answers" - no clarification as to what a Brexit would actually look like should the referendum go that way,

This is his biggest fucking crime. You cannot have a vote this big with a simple YES and NO.

[PunkStep]

3 hours ago, RancidPunx said:

Not sitrrring the pot but it doesn’t seem to an outsider like he did anything wholey wrong.

He's the single biggest reason. He's Jar Jar Binks in the Star Wars prequels- triggering the series of events that followed.

[Loki]

Presuming May survives this vote of No Confidence, I have no fucking idea what happens next, and nor does anyone else.

We don't have time to have a general election, get a Labour government, and negotiate a new deal by March even if the EU was prepared to re-negotiate (which they may well not be).  So we either fall off the cliff (most probable) or delay/cancel Article 50 and then start again.

Add to that the fact that I don't think any party will win a majority at a GE... the whole thing is really just fucked.

Someone is going to have to take a massive political blow to resolve this - either unilaterally take hard Brexit, or unilaterally cancel it and then be damned.

[Mr_Danger]

Would May not be able to hold a second referendum in the hope remain wins through then fall on her sword with a bit of honour and at least go out as the person who fixes Cameron's mess? It won't solve everything but it at least gives the next person a bit of a fresh start.

[courageous]

9 minutes ago, Mr_Danger said:

Would May not be able to ...

No, and nor can whoever is PM do anything without getting it passed in the house

There's the rub - apart from no deal (which is the default), any other course of action needs a majority and none of them do

[Keith Houchen]

11 minutes ago, Mr_Danger said:

Would May not be able to hold a second referendum in the hope remain wins through then fall on her sword with a bit of honour and at least go out as the person who fixes Cameron's mess? It won't solve everything but it at least gives the next person a bit of a fresh start.

I don't think she gives a tuppenny fuck about anyone but herself and she has already set out what she wanted to do, and that was to become Prime Minister.  Public opinion means fuck all to her and Cameron, they've reached the top of the tree and that's them set for their post political career.  How they did when they got there doesn't matter, what matters is they got there.  There will always be cronies telling them they did well and that's the ones they'll agree with.  When she goes, I'll be amazed if she lowers herself to carry on as a mere MP.

[courageous]

Gov side (Tory/DUP) had a potential of 327, secured 325

Opp side (Everyone else in a party) had a potential of 307, secured 306

There were 8 Independent MPs, 11 total MPs abstained

 

So basically, everyone more or less followed party lines and once again a pointless process (in and of itself)

[Carbomb]

Gove is such a turd. Nothing would give me greater pleasure at the moment than to see him, Rees-Mogg, and Johnson all outed in some ultra-scandal that sees them cast down publicly.

[StrongStyle]

So she survived. I have to admit that even though I detest the little jizzcock, Gove's promo on Corbyn was quite impressive. There's no doubt that he popped the backbenches, but it could end up being even more damaging to May in the long run if this was his audition.

I fear that the Tories are going to refuse to blink in the endeavour of "delivering democracy" and we are going to lurch into a no deal Brexit. Westminster is a freak show and the EU is quite rightly disgusted with the behaviour on display. Blame the pig fucker and his cronies.

[hallicks]

Here's the clip of Barnier saying the EU would renegotiate the deal if Britain were to shift the red lines (purely a May shit hill to die on):

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by hallicks

[unfitfinlay]

One of Labour’s six tests is that the UK can’t be any worse off by leaving than if we stayed. The EU are never going to agree to that, because it would make membership worthless, so that’s fucked before it even begins.

Plus, a new Government doesn’t really change the fundamental problem with Brexit: There’s no conseus to what it actually is. Unless a new Government get a very comfortable majority then we’d still be stuck with the same arguments we are now.

We’re going to end up leaving without a deal.

[Factotum]

Nice to see the media blaming Corbyn now. Not like she's had 2 and a bit years to each across the aisle.

[JNLister]

17 hours ago, courageous said:

Gov side (Tory/DUP) had a potential of 327, secured 325

Opp side (Everyone else in a party) had a potential of 307, secured 306

There were 8 Independent MPs, 11 total MPs abstained

 

So basically, everyone more or less followed party lines and once again a pointless process (in and of itself)

If anyone's wondering why the votes don't add up to 650, you had:

325 voting against

307 voting for

Speaker and three deputies don't vote

Two tellers (the ones who count the votes and give the result) from each side aren't included

7 Sinn Fein don't vote

3 of the former Labour MPs who are now independent abstained. 

1 Labour MP was ill

 

Note that the 325 voting against includes an independent from Northern Ireland who isn't part of the Tory-DUP deal but hates Jeremy Corbyn so much she doesn't even charge to vote against him.

 

The key point is that had the DUP voted for the no-confidence it would have won by one vote so they really do have May over a barrel. But... right after the election, it was as simple as the DUP would have the power to decide either way. Now with the different effects of the people who've lost the whip (the Tory ones are back on board now, while the Labour ones are more flaky), if the DUP ever did decide to pull the plug, it would be a genuine nailbiter in a confidence vote.

Edited January 17, 2019 by JNLister