NJPW World

[Supremo]

Mercedes' debut was rubbish. Flat, awkward reaction, capped off with a botched finisher. Crap.

I still think she'll get a good reaction if she appears on Dynamite, but anyone expecting a huge, Moxley-style run where she sticks it to WWE needs to temper their expectations. Ultimately, she's still Sasha Banks. Looks like a star, carries herself like a star, but when it comes to the actual meat and potatoes? Wildly inconsistent. Her promos have always been hit or miss, with her matches even more so.

I'm not convinced she's going to flourish outside of the WWE system, either. Even when adhering to that style she'd regularly attempt mad, convoluted high spots that would invariably fall apart and make everyone look like a dickhead. She wants to be Eddie Guerrero, yet more often than not just ended up being Sin Cara. The idea that she's now able to do whatever she wants and wrestle an even flippier, more convoluted style? It's going to be a disaster. I'm not even blaming her for that botched move on Kairi. It is her fault for even trying something like that though. Just do a clothesline or something, which nobody can mess up. I dread to think what's she's going to attempt over the next six months. Just because Fenix makes it look easy doesn't mean that it actually is.

On the other end of the spectrum, Omega vs. Ospreay was absolutely phenomenal. Omega is the greatest. He's great in AEW but New Japan Omega is fucking Godly. Both displayed a level of disregard for their own bodies that I imagine even Kota Ibushi was thinking, “come on guys, calm it down a bit.”

And to think, that result suggests they're going to have rematches?! Jesus Christ. With a healthy Omega and Danielson, Forbidden Door 2 is going to be ridiculous!

But yeah. Four days in and we’ve likely locked in both the match and the visual of the year.

Art.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Supremo

[Browser Brady]

small irritation. 
 

I do wish the hard camera was facing the actual crowd instead of just the bottom of the ramp.

[garynysmon]

There is a generation of wrestlers that are so engrained with the WWE system that they’ll either sink or absolutely flourish outside of those confines.

I’d always assumed she was 100% a product of that system so was genuinely surprised to read that she’d wrestled for four years on the indies before being snapped up.

She’s only 30 now, I think eventually she’ll be fine. The debut was always going to be way more underwhelming than popping up on AEW. Japanese crowds aren’t the most animated at the best of times, and a large chunk of those in the Tokyo Dome wouldn’t be watching much WWE I’d have thought?

[Infinity Land]

1 hour ago, RalphyV2 said:

 i feel she may not be as good for for Japanese wrestling, or crowd's, as i felt she would be. No doubt she will tear it up in AEW and the USA NJPW shows though  

I know there's an argument that a Wrestle Kingdom isn't a normal NJPW crowd, but i'm wondering if there's a ton of crossover between NJPW & Stardom fans. Don't they still have separate streaming services for instance?

A pure Stardom crowd would probably be more excited because they would see it as a legit main event level signing. For a NJPW fan it's not like you can think of Okada, White, Ospreay, Tanahashi, Naito dream matches.

 

[Infinity Land]

40 minutes ago, RalphyV2 said:

I cant really comment on that really, i only really watch NJPW once a year for WK, but i will try and watch Sasha/MM on her first Stardom match to see how she gets on, which to be honest, now i read more posts, i think she will do ok 

From what i've seen said about her deal. She's only down to do one Stardom show right now. The big supershow they're planning.

Everything else looks to be NJPW dates and mainly for their US shows as seen by making her debut at Battle In the Valley.

[Infinity Land]

18 minutes ago, RalphyV2 said:

Yea it had me thinking that stardom may not be able to afford her for a long contract or multiple dates but I'm not clued up on finances in Japanese wrestling. 

Rumour is that Stardom were sounded out. Couldn't afford it.

It then got bumped up to Bushiroad (the owners of Stardom & NJPW). They obviously saw the value for their US shows, streaming, and profile.

[Statto]

I'd just like to express my disappointment that she went with Mercedes Mone' rather Mone' Banks, which is what I'd seen rumored.

The actual name isn't amazing, but Mone' Banks would have been wonderfully hilariously awful.

I'm hoping the new nickname comes with a new announcer catchphrase of "IT'S CEO O'CLOCK!" when she comes out.

[BomberPat]

2 hours ago, garynysmon said:

Japanese crowds aren’t the most animated at the best of times, and a large chunk of those in the Tokyo Dome wouldn’t be watching much WWE I’d have thought?

It's a tough break at the moment because Japanese audiences are only now being permitted to cheer out loud again, but still with a number of restrictions, so it's never going to be a big Road Warrior pop. I've seen a lot of people leaning on the "Japanese crowds are quiet and respectful" trope these last two days, though, and that's always just been an excuse for wrestlers who can't get over in Japan - plenty of wrestlers and plenty of moments on this card got huge pops and massive rounds of applause, so why were they just being "quiet and respectful" of Mercedes' shit promo?

In terms of crossover, I don't think WWE currently has a TV deal in Japan - they were on J-Sports, and that deal expired in 2021. You can get the WWE Network there, and there's a recap show on a satellite channel, but they're not on proper telly. That suggests to me that they probably weren't pulling in big ratings prior to 2021 either. Even before that, it was generally said that there's not much crossover between WWE's audience in Japan and NJPW's audience in Japan, so I'm not sure how well known Mercedes would be to a Tokyo Dome crowd. Throw in the new name, the fact that women aren't ordinarily part of NJPW's shows anyway (so there's still work to be done in educating the audience that they can be stars and a worthwhile part of the show), and a disappointing debut, and it's an uphill battle. I get that they tried to be smart and do the CM Punk AEW debut thing of talking around her showing up, everyone knowing it without them ever saying it, but they'd have been better off actually announcing she would be appearing and doing some hype packages for the domestic audience, I'd have thought.

[Browser Brady]

4 hours ago, RalphyV2 said:

Yet to watch the Main, saving it for when i feel better, however i have watched the rest of the main card and was left disappointed for the most part, however i cant put my finger on why really.

 

Ironically i only watched the Main Event and in a weird way i didnt enjoy it.

i found myself hoping they wouldnt get seriously hurt rather than actually getting lost and caught up in the match.

I can appreciate why people think it was great but it wasnt for me. 
 

Maybe wrestling has passed me by.

[Infinity Land]

Looks like NJ Strong is coming to an end. Still obviously promoting shows in the US, but looks like the sub-brand is no longer in fashion. I can't remember if it was always planned as part of the NJoA expansion, or something that just filled the COVID era gap for international talent stuck outside the Japan due to restrictions.

 

[TildeGuy~!]

NJPW president has said they’ll be rebuilding it, so I don’t think it’s actually going away.

[The King Of Swing]

Other than maybe some Stardom wrestlers challenging for the IWGP Women's Title, I don't see much appeal in New Japan in the US.

[CavemanLynn]

WK used to be compulsory viewing for me, but they've REALLY gone off the boil during and post pandemic, and are really struggling to find their feet again. I know other companies get lambasted for fucking up pushes and building new main event talent, but looking at the main events at WK this year, I swear it's been the same guys (excluding Osplay) for 10 years.

I gave the two mains a go. Omega vs Osprey was two smug cunts being horrible cunts to each other, with one trying occasionally to be a funny cunt.

I usually have time for Jay White, but him vs Okada felt like it went on for days.

Both had the same problem I have with a lot of puro and indie wrestling, in that it seems to be only a matter of time in each match before any sense of face or heel goes out the window. When both guys are working so hard they deserve to win, any sense of visceral emotion disappears. Kickouts become a test of endurance, not "OMG what are they going to do next?" but "FFS what are they going to do now?" It's just exhausting. 

[BomberPat]

I thought Ospreay vs. Okada was really good, though not the guaranteed Match of The Year candidate that people were crowing about - probably because it was closer to the good kind of Kenny Omega match than to the bad kind of Will Ospreay match, so didn't really lean into either wrestler's worst instincts. 

I agree on the face/heel division thing, though. Before I watched the show, and saw someone praising Will Ospreay's "babyface selling", which is all well and good, but he's not a babyface, is he? I question the logic of having the leader of a heel stable do the gutsy babyface "never say die" performance, and it felt like they were wrestling a story for themselves, not what made sense for NJPW - especially once New Year's Dash was out of the way and it was clear that it wasn't a double turn situation, that Ospreay's still leading the United Empire, and Kenny doing a tag match with Okada doesn't seem like we're supposed to be seeing him as a brutal villain for putting Ospreay through the ringer. 

[SuperBacon]

57 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

do the gutsy babyface "never say die" performance

See, I didn't really get that from the performance/his selling (which I thought was really good)

More that he was knocked silly and he had no choice but to act desperate, almost doing it subconsciously, rather than as an intended "gutsy" effort.