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NXT - Post NXT Takeover discussion in progress


NEWM

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Honestly, I enjoyed it, but I agree the main event was pretty bananas in its indie-ness. So many near falls, superkicks and destroyers: it felt like every Old School Wrestling guy's nightmare. It was enough, even, to make me wonder what kind of future Adam Cole has in WWE. As excellent as he is in his character/promo work, it's hard to see him as a fit for the main roster if this is his style. You just can't imagine that Vince would countenance such a match on the big show and it's hard to imagine someone so undersized working differently in a big spot. Something will have to give.

On the flip side, as everyone knows, Dream is magnificent. There's such collective loathing for WWE-bred guys and the cookie-cutter "WWE style", but he looks like the perfected version, doesn't he? The charisma is unreal and he performs in every match. This wasn't his greatest showcase, of course, but I still thought it was very good. In about two weeks he managed to imbue a nothing, last-minute pairing with Tyler Breeze with more story and emotion that you're likely to see on Raw or Smackdown more than a couple of times a year. I'm not saying I want him called up, but I am saying he's already better than most of the main roster.

Riddle continues to impress me. I'm still desperate for his character to develop past a single syllable word, but in-ring he's been consistently excellent. I mean, I hate to bring up the name, but he actually does remind me of Chris Benoit a little. There's a focus and conviction to what he's doing that stands out. He doesn't linger in things too long. It's the kind of thing I can imagine WWE beating out of him - "take your time, let the audience enjoy the spot, do less" - but I love the intensity. Such an aggressive style as a babyface feels rare, so for now I'm enjoying it a lot.

-edit-

Also, I'm a big Mauro fan, but yeah... a lot of yelling on this. It was the first time I've thought, "oh, so this is why some people don't like him!".

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I love Gargano, like Cole, love their matches and don’t mind silly spots or that kind of thing, but that no selling the reverse frankensteiner and then kicking Gargano made me audibly shout “fuck off”

Utterly ridiculous. And I know I mention him everytime, but Ranallo nearly ruined that whole thing. Verging on parody, and I fail to see how anyone could be a fan of his. 

Another thing, after hearing it a million times and not paying attention, the Undisputed theme is basically the NWO theme isn’t it?

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49 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

the Undisputed theme is basically the NWO theme isn’t it?

It's not a million miles away, I always thought it was a rip-off of Bombtrack by Rage Against The Machine.

 

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Yeah, good shout. It’s definitely got that Morello clipped-riff hasn’t it? Great song, but I always feel like they should have individual songs and only come out to that as a group, or just Cole.

I like how they all do different little things for the “boom” bit though 

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I hadn't watched NXT for a few weeks, and it seems that there wasn't a ton of build for any of this anyway - with that in mind, the "Target" show they aired beforehand did a pretty good job of getting you up to speed by focusing on the wrestlers involved, rather than highlighting the relative lack of build. 

I really enjoyed Riddle vs. Strong. Riddle has something special when he's got his working boots on, and it was Strong's best match in a long time.

Breeze vs. Dream was great. Not saying anything that hasn't already been said when I say Velveteen Dream is one of the best around. Tyler Breeze was clearly working to impress as well, but what a sorry state of affairs when someone who's worked their way through the development system has to go back there to feel like a big deal. Dream must be bricking it at the thought of getting called up.

The tag team match was insane. I liked the lack of typical WWE "set up an elaborate structure of ladders for no discernible reason, for a pay-off in ten minutes' time" heat-killing spots, and there was a lot of inventive spots, but far too much of it was insanely reckless. The German Suplex spot would have been bad enough already, even without the ladder flying off and nearly murdering Kyle O'Reilly. I'd called the Forgotten Sons to win this one via interference from Ryker, so found it hilarious that they just had him get fucked up instead. Forgotten Sons look even more like big useless idiots after that. Really great finish - Montez Ford is an absolute star, and being in a tag team allows him to hide his weaknesses and just dine out on charisma and athleticism for now. Only downside is that Angelo Dawkins is still a complete waste of space.

I was nodding off during Shirai/Baszler, so will probably have to rewatch that one. What I saw/remember was good. While the No DQ/Hardcore/whatever match they seem to be building too could be fun, I do think it's a bit of a shame. There seems to be the assumption in NXT that they need to give babyfaces an "edge" - that to beat a vicious heel, they have to get aggressive themselves. But sometimes the better story is the babyface being able to win without stooping to the heel's level, because that's what makes them a babyface.

I preferred the main event to their previous match, but it's the sort of match that you'd enjoy live a hell of a lot more than on TV. The closing few minutes were preposterous. I can't see either of these two getting a big spot on a main roster show wrestling at that pace, and if they get called up and actually slow things down, those who are fans of their work now will only complain about them being watered down, so it's hard to even justify it on the grounds of that being what an NXT audience expect. I did find it funny when they were bigging up Gargano for how many Takeovers he'd been on - doesn't that just mean he's been in development for ages without getting called up to the main roster? Damning with faint praise.

Going back to what I said about babyfaces needing an edge - Johnny Gargano was the best pure whitemeat babyface they've had since Daniel Bryan. The twists and turns of the Ciampa feud made it clear that he's not a pure babyface, but actually a vindictive, easily manipulated, quite fragile man, who's lust for revenge and glory was enough to even threaten his marriage. But now he's a face again, we're expected to go back to treating him the way he was, without any comparable character development in that direction. The result is that I just don't give a shit about Gargano as a character any more, so all this match has going for it is being "a good match".

By contrast, Adam Cole is the exact same bloke he was when he walked in. He's a smug, arrogant heel, fine. But he's had zero character development in the time he's been in NXT, and I still don't know why "ADAM COLE BAY-BAY" is a thing. He's a heel, but wrestled no differently to underdog babyface Johnny Gargano - still dives, flips and high spots. On a UK show a while back, I remember him doing his catchphrase, and the crowd chanting "one more time" - and him actually doing it again. Surely Working Heel 101 is "don't give the fans what they want"? 
Contrast with Shayna Baszler. Everything about the way Shayna wrestles is designed to make you hate her, and want to see her get beaten. You can't imagine her hitting repeated high spots in the hope of getting a "This Is Awesome" chant because that's not her job.

And I'm not normally one to hate on the Canadian Destroyer - I think there are ways to pull it off that are deliberate enough to look impactful, or sudden enough that you don't have time to think about it being silly - but Adam Cole's little hop off the ropes, full stop, then a Canadian Destroyer is the absolute worst thing in NXT.

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I have no problems with Cole's character  - he's a fucking prick and that works great.  I do agree he has too many clean fights though, not enough cheating or working the crowd.  That main event was 15 minutes too long, seriously.  The first 10 were really quite good, with some submission work and selling of body parts.  Then it just went indyriffic, and on and on and on and on.  

As you say, what then happens is that these top NXT guys, who can absorb 40 minutes of head drops, move up to Raw where they lose in 7 minute matches to a DDT, and their character never recovers.  There was a point where NXT was there to teach Indy guys to pace matches in the WWE style.  That's no longer the case and I think it's been hurting recent call-ups.  

The tag was the best match, one of the most fun ladder matches I've seen to be honest, closely followed by Baszler carrying Shirai to her best WWE match so far.  Breeze/Dream was fun too.  I imagine there's a queue at HHH's door of people asking to go back to NXT.  Something has got to give at some point.  I read on Reddit that last week, WWE had over 50 active roster wrestlers that they DIDN'T use on tv.  The wildcard thing has just made things worse.

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13 minutes ago, Loki said:

 I read on Reddit that last week, WWE had over 50 active roster wrestlers that they DIDN'T use on tv.  The wildcard thing has just made things worse.

To be fair on that, it was 50 wrestlers who didn't wrestle a match, not didn't appear.

And I don't understand why people are complaining about that, when people have spent ages complaining that the wrestlers get no time off, are overexposed etc, have matches each week just for the sake of having a match, then as soon as a few people go a few weeks without appearing, they complain about that too.  Surely it's good to have a bit of a rotation on the undercard, so it's not the same wrestlers every week.

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I don’t reckon Gargano is moving up as they’re clearly looking to get one more match out of him & Cole. Gargano has 2 falls, and now Cole has 2 falls (over 2 matches). I’m telling you lads, Iron Man Match is coming, it’s the logical way to finish off the feud. After that, Gargano will probably be the big debut on the post-Summerslam Smackdown

While I was down on the show in the lead in due to a lacklustre build, it was a perfectly acceptable show, but I doubt it’ll be as fondly remembered as other Takeovers

Edited by WyattSheepMask
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Typically fun show from the NXT gang. 

Riddle vs Strong was very good, and the more I think about it, the more I like it. This was Riddle's best NXT showing thus far and Roddy's best NXT singles match. Just really good stuff.

The ladder match was chaotic and wild, and I loved every single second. It was the antithesis of your standard WWE-style ladder match and it was hugely unexpected. It's a high-end MOTYC for me. KOR took a really bad beating so he deserves to be the one who topples Cole from the top of the mountain. Red hot babyface Kyle is just as good as arrogant, gurning, over-the-top heel Kyle.

Dream vs Tyler was your standard Velveteen PPV performance. Good enough to fill the allotted time but not his best match. The finish and post-match was rather irksome as well.

Io vs Shayna didn't really do it for me. There's some fun moments, and Io's cradle near the end was superb, but it lacked the essential flow for me to stay engaged. Shayna is wonderful though, as she is probably the best heel in the company (as in people actually boo her because they want to see her lose).

I echo everyone's opinion on Cole vs Gargano; just way, way too much. It was much better than the 2/3 falls match, only because it lacked the heatless first 20 minutes. But all the superkick feints and Cole's awful variation of the Canadian Destroyer and no-selling reverse 'ranas, coupled with Mauro's awful commentary reaching a fever pitch and a really obnoxious crowd, made this match way too much of a chore than it should've been.

Still, despite the ever-growing negatives of NXT, it was was another great Takeover. The weekly show may be going downhill fast but at least the big shows still fire on all (or most) cylinders. Then again, I said the exact same thing about WWE in 2015, so that's hardly a good sign.

 

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On the subject of “kick feints”, one of my most hated things in wrestling is the missed straight forward kick, nothing special, just a standing forward kick if opponent is stood, or “penalty kick” when opponent is on the floor.

I know it sounds stupid, but it looks so fucking fake as you have to pull your leg away and not let it follow the natural momentum as obviously you know you’re going to miss. I can’t stand it, and I know it’s a very stupid thing to get annoyed at seeing as we’re watching a choreographed fight.

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49 minutes ago, The Dart said:

To be fair on that, it was 50 wrestlers who didn't wrestle a match, not didn't appear.

And I don't understand why people are complaining about that, when people have spent ages complaining that the wrestlers get no time off, are overexposed etc, have matches each week just for the sake of having a match, then as soon as a few people go a few weeks without appearing, they complain about that too.  Surely it's good to have a bit of a rotation on the undercard, so it's not the same wrestlers every week.

That's absolutely fine but I took it as Loki talking about the guys who don't seem to be on ever. Like R-Truth when he seems to go years without being on TV. Or like Breeze, Rawley, Ryder, Gable, Ascension, AOP, Eric Young. Aren't the Colons still there? So many guys with no purpose

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8 hours ago, Loki said:

I have no problems with Cole's character  - he's a fucking prick and that works great.  I do agree he has too many clean fights though, not enough cheating or working the crowd.  That main event was 15 minutes too long, seriously.  The first 10 were really quite good, with some submission work and selling of body parts.  Then it just went indyriffic, and on and on and on and on.

The first moment I realised I really liked Adam Cole was when he was in the ladder match with Velveteen Dream and he slowly set up a chair and then did an absurdly deliberate smug hand flourish indicating he was mightily pleased with his work. It was a set up to him taking a bump on it, which would have been glorious had it not been fucking ridiculous, dangerous bump on the edge of the chair. And that about sums up my frustrations with him as well. For every great character trait, clever spot or great promo, he's got a million superkicks, a bump on the edge of something, or that bouncing Canadian Destroyer. 

I enjoyed the main event here, but as others have said it's too much indy shit. Loved the 'pretending his mates are coming' spot, hated the magic rotating piledriver to the outside for a 2 count halfway through the fucking match. I'm glad he's champ though, I hope he's a bit more sensible in future. 

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13 hours ago, tiger_rick said:

That's absolutely fine but I took it as Loki talking about the guys who don't seem to be on ever. Like R-Truth when he seems to go years without being on TV. Or like Breeze, Rawley, Ryder, Gable, Ascension, AOP, Eric Young. Aren't the Colons still there? So many guys with no purpose

R-Truth isn’t the best example, because he’s brilliant when he does pop up into a storyline now and again, and I think part of that is down to him not being overexposed like the guys who are on every week for years.

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