Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted January 18 Paid Members Share Posted January 18 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Duke said: Obviously, like who like and no one is obligated to be a fan of anyone, but I'm amazed that this is still an opinion that exists about the Bucks in 2024. The phrase if you've seen one Young Bucks match you've seen them all is also bullshit. There are far more worse offending wrestlers in doing the same spots every match then them anyway. It's a lazy Cornette insipid trope. like clockwork  Edited January 18 by Hannibal Scorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted January 18 Paid Members Share Posted January 18 (edited) I used to think that about The Bucks but they’ve converted me during my time watching AEW. They do a lot of high spots and fancy moves but they can weave a narrative through the medium of a batshit multi man sprint and have created some moments of fantastic melodrama. Appropriate that Dragongate was brought up, as their six man tags used to get the same criticism. They’re just doing moves and the matches are interchangeable. You can tell a story with a multi man sprint containing lots of flashy moves  though. When done right they are structured to build to an incredibly dramatic crescendo. You can pack in little character moments and nods to previous matches, and tease/build to specific interactions within the match that are part of a larger story etc. They can veer into overly self indulgent and sure sometimes a tag match between high spot guys *can* just be a series of moves, but The Bucks are capable of much more than that at their best.   Edited January 18 by JLM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted January 18 Paid Members Share Posted January 18 12 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: It's a lazy Cornette insipid trope This is a lazy insipid Young Bucks fans trope. It seems if you criticise them in anyway you are immediately compared to Jim Cornette as a way of negating your criticism. There is a balance to struck somewhere between the two, which is where the Bucks actually lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted January 18 Paid Members Share Posted January 18 They just remind me so much of Jack Evans. Tiny, scrawny, spot monkeys who never change anything whether they're heel or babyfaces, plus they have a move called the fucking Meltzer Driver. I hate them so much. Thank you, fuck you, bye, I guess? But I see the appeal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted January 18 Paid Members Share Posted January 18 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said: This is a lazy insipid Young Bucks fans trope. It seems if you criticise them in anyway you are immediately compared to Jim Cornette as a way of negating your criticism. There is a balance to struck somewhere between the two, which is where the Bucks actually lie. They weren't criticized in anyway other than you've seen one Young Bucks match you've seen them all/they haven't changed in 15 years. That isn't true Midders. Their matches with FTR, Briscoes and even their best of 7 against Death Triangle showed they had more than the same 5 spots every time. I'd say at this point "if you've seen one..." could be applied to Roman Reigns title defenses where the only thing that ever felt different in one of those was when Brock tried to tip over the ring. Otherwise all of those have had the same spots, same interference and same length. And I say this as a casual Bucks fan, there are teams I rate higher than them. Edited January 18 by Hannibal Scorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Eh, I like them. I suppose my main frustration with The Bucks is that they demonstrated - during their last heel run - that they can be phenomenal bad guys. When they're driven and all in on something, they're incredibly watchable. However, Mark Viduka once claimed he had only had to use 70% of his ability while playing in Scottish football, and it feels that way with The Bucks sometimes. They coast. They do just about enough, but no more. I really hope this heel run inspires them to put in that extra effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JLM Posted January 18 Paid Members Share Posted January 18 (edited) Oh yeah, no issue with anyone disliking any wrestler for any reason really, but “all of their matches are the same” is a criticism I had of them too, but ended up reassessing that after watching quite a lot of their matches.  Full disclosure, I must admit there are many wrestlers I’ve watched over the years who wrestle the same match every time and I still bloody love it every time. I have not found it to be the case with The Bucks specifically though. I have loved some of their matches and been indifferent to others. They can raise their game and do a main event level type match that has me on the edge of my seat, in crazy multi man blood and guts extravaganzas or in more traditional tag matches. Equally they can sometimes phone it in and do the moves for a bit and I’ll be indifferent. Edited January 18 by JLM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 9 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: They just remind me so much of Jack Evans. Tiny, scrawny, spot monkeys who never change anything whether they're heel or babyfaces, plus they have a move called the fucking Meltzer Driver. I hate them so much. Thank you, fuck you, bye, I guess? But I see the appeal! I find it helps that I watch them maybe twice a year and they're always matches that involve someone else who I like. I don't mind them but I do like that you hate them as much as I hate Michael Rapaport. It makes me chuckle. Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted January 18 Paid Members Share Posted January 18 1 minute ago, SuperBacon said: I find it helps that I watch them maybe twice a year and they're always matches that involve someone else who I like. In fairness, I didn't mind a couple of the trios matches they had last year on PPVs but I'd say that was wholly to do with the fact I quite like Kenny Omega. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) I like the Bucks but they only really have one gear, one style.  And it’s very fun and hugely successful.  Their matches feel different sometimes depending on who they are in with - they’re probably the two best sellers in the business so they sell the other team’s offence brilliantly.  When it’s their turn to shine, it’s superkick scramble time.  They aren’t spot monkeys, they tell brilliant stories, but it’s the same story.  No harm in that - plenty of the best wrestlers only have one match.  But if I were them, I’d be looking at the Hardys backstage every week - another high flying tag team that weren’t able to find another style as they aged.  Well, Matt tried but here he is in 2024 doing the routine, broke backed and cripple kneed.  Then look at Christian (and Edge) who made their bones in TLC matches, still healthy and wrestling at 50. 🎶 Bucks Bucks, crazy Bucks… be cool Bucks 🎶 Edited January 18 by Loki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted January 18 Paid Members Share Posted January 18 West Side Loki has nailed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, Hannibal Scorch said: The phrase if you've seen one Young Bucks match you've seen them all is also bullshit. There are far more worse offending wrestlers in doing the same spots every match then them anyway. It's a lazy Cornette insipid trope. like clockwork  I never said they are the only offenders or indeed the worst offenders. However by your own words you are acknowledging that they do the same spots every match - so where's the issue?  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 18 Paid Members Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said: They just remind me so much of Jack Evans. Tiny, scrawny, spot monkeys who never change anything whether they're heel or babyfaces this is a disappointing take for me, because I love Jack Evans, and think that he's a much better heel than a babyface, and one of the most fun heels of the last few years for me. What the Young Bucks do well, arguably better than anyone, is timing and escalation. Their matches are full of near-falls, to increasingly elaborate sequences, and they know exactly when to cut it off so that the crowd rise with each one rather than taking it too far and it getting burned out, and they're perfect at upping the pace of their matches - throw them in with a team like Omega and Hangman, who are both equally good at positioning and timing, and you get magic, but throw them in against a lesser team and you effectively get the Young Bucks working their formula around someone else. Which is fine, it's how wrestling works, but because it's a formula so dependent on a string of complicated double teams, it does start to wear thin quicker than most. When I first saw them work heel, they were a revelation, as I'd only seen them as a Hardys-lite smiley babyface act, and Matt in particular was suddenly this obnoxious, deceptively strong bully, while Nick flopped around like Shawn Michaels against Hogan for every bump, and filled every match with slapstick pratfalls and miscommunication spots, and they were a delight. The problem for me is that I don't think they've meaningfully changed up their act since joining Bullet Club, and you could argue that they haven't particularly needed to, but now they really do for this new act to work. I really enjoyed their promo, and thought it built fantastically on them showing up with a smarmy new look last week. It's an old heel trope, but insisting that they be called by their full names of Matthew and Nicholas, when nobody has ever called them that before, just works brilliantly. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure anyone said the name "Young Bucks" during the whole interview - I think Renee just introduced them as "Nick and Matt Jackson", which struck me as odd at the time. I think the central conceit of the turn, that they're the EVPs and have chips on their shoulders about not being treated with respect for it, and they feel that they built the company and everyone owes them their livelihood, is a really good starting point, has enough truth to it for people to believe it, and channels a lot of real-life criticisms into their on-screen work. Talking about throwing tantrums and the company devoting too much time to "backstage cancers" and older wrestlers can easily be explained in kayfabe as referring to them freaking out after losing their last few matches, and then the arguments they were having with Kenny over Chris Jericho, but obviously people are going to read between the lines and think it's them talking about CM Punk and Brawl Out, and I actually think that works fine; it's bringing in a sense of believability, it's telling the people who want to hate them for Brawl Out that they're properly allowed to now, but it's falling short of being counter-productive worked shoot bollocks. The only thing that doesn't really work for me is that their motivation to retire Sting because he represents the last of the old guard doesn't really work when it's already been announced as Sting's last match - he's going to retire whether they beat him or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted January 18 Paid Members Share Posted January 18 “They always do the same spots,” is a mad criticism to throw at any wrestler. The entire medium is built on the idea that everyone has a set number of spots they always do. The art - and fun - is in how and when they do them and if they can come up with cool, interesting ways to incorporate their opponents spots and subvert their own. And frankly, I can’t think of many lads better at that than The Young Bucks. Some of the intricate crescendos they come up with boggle the mind. I get they’re not for everyone, but , “they do the same spots in every match,” is the last thing I’d ever criticise them for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 The Bucks are great fun. Their heel run a few years ago was utterly superb. Their matches are always entertaining and if you show it to a casual or someone who doesn't particularly like wrestling, they love it. Never got the criticism really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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