Survivor Series: WarGames

[RIDDUM_N_STYLE]

14 hours ago, RIDDUM_N_STYLE said:

1 of 2 things are gonna happen with the WarGames matches 

Orton helps Team Cody win the men’s match, then immediately turns heel on them all, setting himself up as Rollins’ next challenger for the Rumble

Damage Control lose the women’s match then they turn on Bayley, as has been teased lately, and Mercedes/Sasha Banks returns to make the save along with Becky and Charlotte so we finally get the Horsewomen as a faction that should have been done during Rousey’s first run

One thing that definitely won’t happen is Pepsi Phil’s return which will have the conspiracy nuts’ heads spinning after all their theories and clues that aren’t clues from recent weeks

And that’s why I don’t fantasy book, wrong on every damn thing

Genuinely did not see them bringing Punk back and props to Cole and Graves for keeping quiet during it to really sell the shock

The show as a whole was fun, think the women’s match just shaded the men’s but the men had the spot of the night with the Uber RKO to JD off the top of the cage, Orton’s genuinely the only guy who could pull that sort of timing off safely 

The Escobar/Lee match was highly entertaining, Gunther/Miz was what it needed to be with Miz pulling out anything he could to take down the Austrian tree and felt for Zoey and Rhea working in front of a wall of silence for most of their match as they had a decent scrap

[BomberPat]

For all the novelty of it, I'm struggling to care about CM Punk given that he returned after that show. I haven't watched any WWE since 'Mania, but it was a Saturday night, the missus is on holiday, and it was my mate's birthday and he wanted to watch it. I fell asleep, and caught up in the morning. 

WWE just fundamentally isn't for me. Everything is micro-managed and polished to within an inch of its life, there's no heat, no tension, no heart, none of the matches feel like they matter.

Comparing WWE's version of Wargames to the best old NWA and WCW versions, or to AEW's Blood & Guts, it's just so naff. A good Wargames match is violent, and full of heat, and WWE don't do either of those things, so it's just wrestlers hitting moves and rearranging furniture, and none of it matters until the last five minutes. AEW are brilliant at these big mad chaotic multi-man matches, because they're not afraid to have two or three things going on at once, or wrestlers fighting off-camera, because it's a live show first and foremost - but in WWE, two wrestlers will hit their spots, and everyone else lies around "selling" while waiting until it's their turn. It feels so neutered and stage managed, and not helped by having two Wargames matches on the same show that hit more or less the same beats at every point.

CM Punk coming in after all that...he looked great, but it reminded me of Bray Wyatt's return at Extreme Rules last year, where they clearly knew that the return itself was enough, but that was as far as they got. And fine, people will tune in on RAW to hear him speak, and then if they hold off on him wrestling until the next PPV they can sell people on subscribing to Peacock just for that (though there's nothing between now and the Rumble, so that might be a tall order, particularly as the Rumble basically sells himself anyway). All of that makes sense.

But I just can't muster up any enthusiasm for CM Punk in this environment. Initially, that's part of the appeal, the square peg in the round hole thing, but we did that a decade ago, just means this time he'll smugly say the word "Elite" in a promo and people will act like it's the biggest mic drop in history. There's only so far that will take him until it becomes about what he's doing in-ring, and what actual programmes he can work with anyone, and I have no idea where he fits. I'm sure some people have a long list of dream matches and dream feuds for him in WWE, but based on the show I just watched, I don't think WWE is capable of dream matches any more, and there's absolutely nobody on that roster I'm excited to see him wrestle, and barely anyone I have any interest in seeing him on the mic against. Now that they've got the "will he/won't he?" hype out of the way, they'll have maybe between now and Wrestlemania where him being there is still a novelty, and then what? He's apparently on a multi-year deal - how long before the novelty has all worn off and he's just another face in the crowd? How long before whatever the 2024 equivalent is of a feud with Corporate Kane? 

I'm sorry to be so much more down on this than everyone else, but after hearing so much talk of WWE being better than it was, I still don't think I've watched a more soulless paint-by-numbers wrestling show in a long time, and it would be a struggle to make me care about anyone in that environment.

Still, there's few more fitting late career moves for an old punk than signing with a major, advertising Slim Jims, and taking the Saudi petro-dollar, so here we are.

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

12 minutes ago, simonworden said:

Being "that guy" for a sec, that was the rumble. Apparently TKO are more open to littering the ring and area with sponsorship during shows so I'd say get used to it. 

I always welcome the perspective of our Vietnamese correspondent. 

I don't personally think there is much to get used to. I watch a lot of boxing, most shows have a canvas with more advertising than empty space. 

This post is brought to you by our sponsors Legal Foods, High Street Lincoln. For all your legal Chinese food requirements, try Legal Foods. 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Lion_of_the_Midlands

[Jazzy G]

27 minutes ago, mim731 said:

Rockaway Keith 

Keith On The Brat? 

[SuperBacon]

Right pack it in. 

[d-d-d-dAz]

1 minute ago, SuperBacon said:

Right pack it in. 

Don’t know that song.

In other ‘Tony’s fumbled bag’s’ news, Triple H took a sideways swipe at AEW in the press conference. Asked about Jade Cargill he admitted they’ve realised she’s ‘limited through not fault of her own’.

 

[FUM]

Incredible moment and fair play to those who held confidence while I was fairly adamant otherwise. Though going by Trips, the hints were purely coincidence and/or speculation but who knows at this stage - worked me and that’s all I want from my wrestling.

[RedRooster]

41 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Comparing WWE's version of Wargames to the best old NWA and WCW versions, or to AEW's Blood & Guts, it's just so naff.

I hate the Wargames concept in general,  whether it’s WWE, AEW or any other company. That period of time where neither team can win is such a drag. For me, when there can’t be an outcome (ie. a pinfall) there isn’t much drama. Also, it generally inflates the match length in a very unnecessary way.

So with that in mind, I didn’t really like the rest of the show much. One Wargames match is bad enough, but having two was too much for me. I don’t regret watching the show for obvious reasons, and I’m a huge fan of Triple H’s booking in a general sense, but this is one event I’d like to see the back of.

[DavidB6937]

54 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

I'm sorry to be so much more down on this than everyone else, but after hearing so much talk of WWE being better than it was, I still don't think I've watched a more soulless paint-by-numbers wrestling show in a long time, and it would be a struggle to make me care about anyone in that environment.

Firstly, no one should be apologising for enjoying or not enjoying certain things around here. It's that diversity and generally reasonable discussion and opinion that makes this place interesting.

I get that WWE and its style isn't for everyone. Completely respect that. And no, for all the improvements it's obviously STILL the same company because there's no real reason for them to overhaul everything. They're extremely successful and there's a lot of people that DO enjoy what they do. So it'd be a bit strange to just change everything.

However what I believe their strength is lately is being able to deliver on things the audience wants to see rather than constantly trying to go against them. LA Knight for example. Delivering Punk. Those sorts of things. It feels like there's a lot more respect there. Plus actually you get the feeling that the majority of talent are actually enjoying working there and that helps. Stuff like the press conferences have a real feel good vibe as well as the live events. And so everyone's actually enjoying going to see the shows rather than being silent or chanting in more of a protest fashion than anything else.

In regards to dream matches or whatever I still think they're capable of building things well. It'll still be done in that WWE style though so if that's not someone's thing then I don't think that'll be changing anytime soon.

Luckily we have strong alternatives these days. Everyone seems to be thriving in their own ways and that's great. There's competition but also core differences on each side.

[Hannibal Scorch]

58 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Don’t know that song.

In other ‘Tony’s fumbled bag’s’ news, Triple H took a sideways swipe at AEW in the press conference. Asked about Jade Cargill he admitted they’ve realised she’s ‘limited through not fault of her own’.

 

It’s a hilarious swipe because, it is. She was given loads of training before TV and had Bryan Danielson later. But she’s got other things she wants to do and hasn’t put the effort in. It’s what a lot of people said when she jumped, me included, that she wasn’t ready for WWE TV, and they obviously agree. 
 

That said, because she’s in the PC now, and they have invested in her, hopefully she does put the effort in.

[DavidB6937]

How do we know what effort she put in?

[Devon Malcolm]

Wasn't she booked entirely in squash matches? How do you improve doing those?

[SuperBacon]

This should be the real talking point of last night.

Don't wanna get all horny on main but I'd cut off my right ear to REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED covered in REDACTED REDACTED whilst she punches me in the REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED and we have a cup of tea after.

[The King Of Swing]

Jade's PPV matches tended to be more competitive, TV matches were usually squashes. 

How it should be, imo. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by The King Of Swing

[DavidB6937]

5 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

Wasn't she booked entirely in squash matches? How do you improve doing those?

Pretty much what Bryan said:

https://wrestlepurists.com/bryan-danielson-reveals-aews-jade-cargill-has-expressed-interest-in-working-in-japan/