Survivor Series: WarGames

[RedRooster]

1 hour ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

This is the equivalent to a premier league club spending a £100m on a striker, doing the big press stuff and then not seeing him play for a whole season because he’s not up to standard.

It really isn’t, not least because Jade Cargill won’t have cost them anywhere near as much and she’s not been off TV for the wrestling equivalent of a season. They’ve made an investment in a wrestler with very obvious potential, and they’re biding their time to make sure she lives up to that. Even if her signing doesn’t work out, it’s still potentially money well spent as it signifies that they are in a position to steal key AEW talent; after AEW spent its formative years nabbing theirs.

1 hour ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Does anyone with any opinion?

When it comes to wrestling companies, I would like to think so. I think it’s more than possible to care more about one company than the other - and even to ‘will them on’ if that’s what you want to do, and objectively analyse the decisions they - and any rival company - make.  
 

Anyway…Triple H suggested that Shotzi had something of a standout performance in that match. I couldn’t disagree more, she’s very Ruby Soho-like in that she hides her weaknesses behind a cool look. I just don’t see it with her.

Edited November 26, 2023 by RedRooster

[Devon Malcolm]

5 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Anyway…Triple H suggested that Shotzi had something of a standout performance in that match. I couldn’t disagree more, she’s very Ruby Soho-like in that she hides her weaknesses behind a cool look. I just don’t see it with her.

Yeah, she was rubbish. Just like the whole match, really. We didn't even get a Bayley turn, it was a waste of time.

As much as WWE is doing a lot better with women's wrestling these days, outside of stables they still struggle to know how to develop a female wrestler. But it's simple - give them a chance to develop a character. Raquel Rodriguez looks great in the ring, for instance - her work and her look are excellent. But outside of that, what is she? They just don't give them a chance to do anything else, so you end up with the likes of Shotzi trying too hard. Toni Storm, and to a lesser extent Skye Blue and Julia Hart, should be a lesson to both promotions as to what you might have if you actually give people a time to develop something beyond having matches.

[Hannibal Scorch]

5 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Even if her signing doesn’t work out, it’s still potentially money well spent as it signifies that they are in a position to steal key AEW talent; after AEW spent its formative years nabbing theirs.

 

Who did they nab exactly? A lot of their signings were free agents after being released. Cole and Bryan are two of the more obvious ones who chose not to resign but Miro, Black, Hardy, Soho were all released.

9 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

When it comes to wrestling companies, I would like to think so. I think it’s more than possible to care more about one company than the other - and even to ‘will them on’ if that’s what you want to do, and objectively analyse the decisions they - and any rival company - make.  
 

I’m not sure what was missed because that’s what my point was.

[DavidB6937]

Sometimes I think it's okay to let stuff go.

[LaGoosh]

23 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

Do they have this now? It struck me with AEW that they essentially used independents as their training schools but I guess with someone like Cargill that wouldn't work too well. But as she was a rare example of that kind of talent in AEW, maybe they didn't / don't need one?

Nope. They have a few semi-linked training schools but nothing official. I don't think AEW is big enough that they need anything. Really they should be stocking their roster with the cream of the crop from the indies and Japanese scene.

[RedRooster]

16 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Who did they nab exactly? A lot of their signings were free agents after being released. Cole and Bryan are two of the more obvious ones who chose not to resign but Miro, Black, Hardy, Soho were all released.

You’ve answered your own question here - then you have people like Moxley, Jericho, Big Show, Brodie Lee, FTR (possibly? I can’t remember how their departure came about), Christian and Mark Henry. The releases are relevant too, as it’s as much about perception as anything else - people were leaving WWE and going to AEW, which felt like a hotter product for the longest time.

18 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

As much as WWE is doing a lot better with women's wrestling these days, outside of stables they still struggle to know how to develop a female wrestler. But it's simple - give them a chance to develop a character. Raquel Rodriguez looks great in the ring, for instance - her work and her look are excellent. But outside of that, what is she? They just don't give them a chance to do anything else, so you end up with the likes of Shotzi trying too hard. Toni Storm, and to a lesser extent Skye Blue and Julia Hart, should be a lesson to both promotions as to what you might have if you actually give people a time to develop something beyond having matches.

To be fair, Rhea Ripley, Tiffany Stratton and Chelsea Green - as underpushed as she is - are also excellent examples. But yeah, I broadly agree with what you’re saying - though I’d apply it to both companies. Whether it’s Shida, Raquel, Kris Statlander or even Bianca Belair right now, there’s a whole lot of nothing going on as far as character work goes. WWE gives its women wrestlers TV time, but one of the main failings of the Triple H-era is that the women’s division on the whole feels pretty cold. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by RedRooster

[Hannibal Scorch]

13 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

You’ve answered your own question here - then you have people like Moxley, Jericho, Big Show, Brodie Lee, FTR (possibly? I can’t remember how their departure came about), Christian and Mark Henry. The releases are relevant too, as it’s as much about perception as anything else - people were leaving WWE and going to AEW, which felt like a hotter product for the longest time.

Just to confirm of your examples only Mox and Jericho were free agents, the rest were released and picked up after their 90 days. Same with Regal, someone else who I’m sure will be delighted to be able to catch up with Punk.

[SuperBacon]

I really don't like to be and don't mean to be unkind, but that JD McDonagh looks absolutely ridiculous. 

[Lenin]

Rhea Ripley gave me a laugh with her reaction to CM Punk:

apologies if already posted 

 

 

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

6 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said:

Raquel Rodriguez

I won't accept this slander. When she came up from NXT to the main roster, she was given the gimmick of smiling and "has back muscles" for her entrance pose.

Character development.

[DavidB6937]

5 hours ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said:

I won't accept this slander. When she came up from NXT to the main roster, she was given the gimmick of smiling and "has back muscles" for her entrance pose.

Character development.

They've really wasted her. I thought they did pretty well at building her up in NXT and she showed some great improvement and then they just gave her a lazy call up and she's so bland now.

[air_raid]

46 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

They've really wasted her. I thought they did pretty well at building her up in NXT and she showed some great improvement and then they just gave her a lazy call up and she's so bland now.

That's been their MO for years, hasn't it? Lost track of the number of talents that were carefully curated into vital parts of the show in NXT only to be just "there" when they got to the main roster. Having American Alpha and The Revival called up to the two shows and not developing two vibrant tag team divisions around them being the most obvious. Having a womens tag team title and not letting the whole story be built around the Iiconics being the end bosses for rotating babyfaces to chase being the second. Hell, that particular pair debuted on the main roster costing Charlotte the belt and "The Queen's" quest for revenge was virtually non-existent, she just moved straight into chasing Carmella and didn't give Billie and Peyton a second look. Short-sighted.

Edited November 27, 2023 by air_raid
deleting accidental Bret

[air_raid]

Sorry for double post but....

2 minutes ago, air_raid said:

in the NXT 

[LaGoosh]

23 minutes ago, air_raid said:

That's been their MO for years, hasn't it? Lost track of the number of talents that were carefully curated into vital parts of the show in NXT only to be just "there" when they got to the main roster.

I think that's the biggest flaw of NXT. Wrestlers spend ages there carefully developing new characters and personas and then arrive on the main shows as a "finished product" when really the best part of wrestling is actually seeing a character develop on television through storylines and feuds. Instead you often just get these finely tuned simplified, completely one note characters turn up on Raw and Smackdown and it's like..."ok, now what?".

[FUM]

I also think NXT is an environment where it is easier to get your character etc. over. It’s often talked about how people are poor when they come up but that’s because most of them look like a rabbit in the headlights.

One thing I always remember is Adam Cole’s Royal Rumble appearance. Now I know Cole isn’t a tall guy naturally but NXT I never thought he was small. He came out in that Rumble I thought he looked the tiniest guy ever and no longer felt any sort of threat. The big arena, lights, tron etc. it must be but everything just looked bigger compared to him. It’s why I don’t think MJF would be as successful as people think if he made the switch as he’s the same height.

Raquel looked huge in NXT but looks beatable on the main roster and I don’t think that’s down to booking alone.