Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted June 6, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted June 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, RedRooster said: Time will tell, but I wouldn’t be shocked if it’s false information leaked by someone on AEW’s end. While I certainly don’t think this was a work all along, I do feel a degree of cynicism about what happens from here. If they didn’t clear what they were planning to do ahead of time given who was in attendance, they’re utterly insane. I just can’t imagine that didn’t happen, it’s far too high risk a thing to do. I hate to pop a tinfoil hat on, but I feel a bit dubious about this particular tidbit. I don't think they would leak false information without WB/Discovery's blessing and I doubt they would care that much about a wrestling show on one of their networks. They probably flipped their lid watching it. Edited June 6, 2022 by Hannibal Scorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Do you need their blessing though? I mean if it's false information then the only thing verifiable is where it's going to end up, and I doubt Tony's going to get many angry memos asking if he's seen what Rajah or Lords of Pain or whatever have written. I agree with the notion that it's all a bit of a work from here on out again. It's also weird seeing reactions from elsewhere online from people who feel hurt or bothered by what's a work and what's not. I mean I get that that means this thing might actually be doing its job but...who cares? As a fan you're ideally not meant to know what's what. You're meant to just go with it, any opinion on the actual quality of the angles or presentation aside. I guess for a certain section of the audience where the newz is the main draw, it stings that they're less sure what that newz is or something, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Work shoots nearly always reek of desperation. And they're nearly always clobbered around your head like a bowling ball. If wrestlers were writing Obi Wan Kenobi they'd have him turn around and say "the prequels were bollocks George, but not as bad as the sequels Disney." Just give me one hour of wrestling a week with colourful characters who don't break the fourth wall. That'd be a true alternative. I'm a big Doctor Who fan. I read articles and watch DVD extras about the production. I'm fascinated by it. But I don't want the daleks to tell Chris Chibnall to fuck off. I don't need the Doctor to tell me things will be better once RTD gets here. I want to watch the show for 45 minutes, sulk about it online for 5 days, get overly hyped by the next episode for a day and then watch again. I don't understand how wrestling, of all things, is so stuck up its own arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 9 hours ago, Hannibal Scorch said: I don't think they would leak false information without WB/Discovery's blessing and I doubt they would care that much about a wrestling show on one of their networks. They probably flipped their lid watching it. I don't think they're going to care a great deal about what is leaked to Mike Johnson of PWInsider. None of the news sites appear to be making a big deal out of this, which has me feeling that it's even less likely to be a big deal. As I mentioned, I just don't think there's a universe in which they'd have done this, in front of Warner executives, without prior warning. I also don't think MJF would have done it without permission - if he has aspirations of going to WWE, saying "fuck" on air without getting the green light is a red flag he wouldn't want to wave, and if he wants to stay in AEW, he's not going to do something like that without telling anyone. The fact they managed to mute it in the States (though not elsewhere) also suggests to me they knew that it was coming. If anyone - MJF, or AEW - decided to do something like this without getting permission in these specific circumstances, it would be beyond stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, Vamp said: I don't understand how wrestling, of all things, is so stuck up its own arse Massive inferiority complex innit. The wrestlers are upset they aren’t seen as proper sports athletes and the fans know it’s fake but hate it when normal people point it out. So anything that might or might not be real is always met with “It’s a work” so the very clever fan can’t be fooled by the fake sport. Plus Little Tones inferiority complex adds to it. He knows he’s a disappointment to big dad Shad and he could have his train set confiscated at any moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted June 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted June 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, RedRooster said: The fact they managed to mute it in the States (though not elsewhere) also suggests to me they knew that it was coming. Live TV normally has a dump button for such situations and Fite have a separate feed to TNT, but I agree they probably knew what might be said. My point about what was leaked was not who it was leeked to, but more misrepresenting them as an organisation. Still, regardless it has us talking about it which is the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted June 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted June 7, 2022 Have worked shoots ever worked? Have they ever stuck the landing? I haven’t watched a tonne of WCW, and I came to ECW quite late, so maybe there are examples I’m unaware of, but they always seem to go the same way. An initial buzz amongst smart fans, before it fizzles out into a mess of confusing, convoluted nonsense that undermines everything and does more harm than good. It’s genuinely depressing that this bollocks is happening in a company that has thrived on basic, classic, logical story-telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WeeAl Posted June 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted June 7, 2022 Anyone able to shed some light on this? I know the U.S are pretty conservative regarding TV. What I don't understand is why cursing is allowed in say films or TV dramas, but it's an issue for scripted live/first run television, even if it's after the watershed (which may or may not be different there than here, I don't know). Maybe it was pre-watershed or something which would make sense. I understand sponsors and licensing agreements play into it for the WWE, that even if they were able to say 'fuck' after 10pm, they probably wouldn't want to as they are aiming to appease certain sponsors. AEW however are kind of trying to appeal to that young adult male audience, and I've got to think sponsors don't run from everything that audience would be interested in, over curse words. That it would be expected. Hopefully someone can explain how the types of TV differ, or the rules regarding such things being different for the U.S to the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted June 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted June 7, 2022 The only one I can think of working was when Pillman managed to convince Bischoff to give him his release. I presume it'll just get stuck on a delay and they'll have to have somebody sat around with a bleep machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, WeeAl said: Hopefully someone can explain how the types of TV differ, or the rules regarding such things being different for the U.S to the UK. I guess the biggest consideration is the US has 4 time zones so watersheds wouldn’t work unless it was after midnight on the east coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 17 minutes ago, Supremo said: Have worked shoots ever worked? Have they ever stuck the landing? I haven’t watched a tonne of WCW, and I came to ECW quite late, so maybe there are examples I’m unaware of, but they always seem to go the same way. An initial buzz amongst smart fans, before it fizzles out into a mess of confusing, convoluted nonsense that undermines everything and does more harm than good. It’s genuinely depressing that this bollocks is happening in a company that has thrived on basic, classic, logical story-telling. The issue is, people remember CM Punk blowing the kiss as if that was the end of the matter. They forget that was just the beginning, and pretty much everything after he came back was awful. As, try as people might to forget this fact, you can’t wrap up a shoot with a work. It doesn’t work. If you spend all your time telling people wrestling isn’t real, getting beat via pinfall really isn’t going to cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted June 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted June 7, 2022 18 minutes ago, Supremo said: Have worked shoots ever worked? Have they ever stuck the landing? I haven’t watched a tonne of WCW, and I came to ECW quite late, so maybe there are examples I’m unaware of, but they always seem to go the same way. An initial buzz amongst smart fans, before it fizzles out into a mess of confusing, convoluted nonsense that undermines everything and does more harm than good. It’s genuinely depressing that this bollocks is happening in a company that has thrived on basic, classic, logical story-telling. Depends on your definition of "worked", depends on your definition of "worked shoot". It's hard to argue that CM Punk's Pipebomb promo didn't "work", even if the initial story didn't live up to the promise of him leaving with the belt and popping up somewhere else. Pillman's Loose Cannon antics worked in the sense that they made Brian Pillman an awful lot of money, but they never meant a thing ratings-wise. The aftermath of the Montreal Screwjob was something of a worked shoot, you could argue, and that gave us Mr. McMahon and launched Stone Cold into the stratosphere. There is definitely a lot to be said for wrestling trying to get too clever for its own good and valuing the opinions of a relative minority of hardcore fans following the backstage gossip over the people just watching the TV show every week, but that's not solely where "worked shoot" stuff comes from - wrestling isn't like other forms of entertainment in that there is a bit more grey area between what's real and what's not, and playing around in that hinterland between "shoot" and "work" is one of the storytelling tools available to bookers, and can be used really well to add a sense of reality or credibility to an existing story. "Existing story" is the point for me. When Paul Heyman cut a "shoot" promo on Vince McMahon on the go-home show for Survivor Series 2001, it worked because he made sure that the content of the promo still served the purpose of building to the Alliance vs. WWF match at the pay-per-view; it was still a promo selling an event above all else, it just used real events and real feelings to accent that. Where worked shoots don't tend to work is when it's not flavouring an existing story, but ignoring that story in favour of the "shoot" element - as I've said before, the biggest problem for me with MJF's promo was that it had nothing to do with what MJF had done at the promo; he wasn't frustrated that he lost to Wardlow after months (arguably years) of build to that match, he was frustrated about behind-the-scenes nonsense that has nothing to do with the MJF on-screen character. They could have used the loss to Wardlow as a more overt catalyst for MJF losing his cool, but they didn't, they just ignored it and assumed knowledge of MJF's contract and behind-the-scenes drama, with little if any effort to interweave that into a logical story. When MJF was talking about how great he is and how much more money he deserves, it felt like someone should have walked out and said, "hang on mate, didn't we just see you lose on pay-per-view?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lorne Malvo Posted June 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Keith Houchen said: Massive inferiority complex innit. The wrestlers are upset they aren’t seen as proper sports athletes and the fans know it’s fake but hate it when normal people point it out. So anything that might or might not be real is always met with “It’s a work” so the very clever fan can’t be fooled by the fake sport. Plus Little Tones inferiority complex adds to it. He knows he’s a disappointment to big dad Shad and he could have his train set confiscated at any moment. When you order a PITCOS post from Wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Nick James Posted June 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted June 7, 2022 Is it now a case that Tony has exhausted his 3 year plan in his notebook and is now running on the fly? There seems to have been a bit of a shift in direction over the last 6 months, and while not at WWE levels of short term booking, it's definitely noticeable. Either that or Omega had more of a hand in things than we realised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WeeAl Posted June 7, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted June 7, 2022 42 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: I guess the biggest consideration is the US has 4 time zones so watersheds wouldn’t work unless it was after midnight on the east coast. That's a good point. The better move for ratings I would guess to be a time delay in each time zone, but for prestige they all want to be considered live sports, so are then having to go out at 4 or 5pm on the west coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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