The AEW Wednesday Night Dynamite Thread

[Pinc]

54 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Yeah I find the 'over-saturation' argument to be a bit of a strange one in terms of anyone using it as a reason to not enjoy wrestling. It can be used by business people to suggest that there's too much etc, but as a fan? You're right - there's only as much as you choose to watch, so that really shouldn't be an issue.

For fans its about trying to keep up with the canon isn't it.

Now that there are so many companies at what you might call an 'ROH-ish' level, and now that its so easy to watch them all, you have to maintain fairly regular viewership of most/all of them to really feel like you have a canonical knowledge of the whole business. Picking and choosing what to watch among them can feel incomplete and ultimately less immersive/rewarding. For example - you have to be at least conversant in the goings on in New Japan over the last couple of years to properly understand the Moxley/Omega feud in AEW at the moment. In fact there are a few AEW gimmicks that assume a lot of knowledge from their work elsewhere (e.g. Riho, Dark OrdeR). And even in WWE, lots of characters' motivations are pretty opaque once they get to the main roster unless you followed them in NXT first.

So yeah, I do know what people mean about the wide amount of choice having a fatiguing effect on one's fandom. In that these days all of these different feds blur together into one canon, in a way that wasn't really true before the internet/globalisation meant that you could watch them all.

[WyattSheepMask]

Out of the two shows, I’m definitely finding Dynamite to be the easier watch. The last 2 weeks of NXT I’ve had to do in split sittings because it’s just not doing enough to make me want to sit and watch it for 90ish minutes. It’s not the matches themselves that are the problem (although they can be a bit Indy-riffic), it could be down simply to the fact they’re in front of the same people at the same venue every week, and I’ve mentioned before about the commentry.

AEW on the other hand have that look & feel of a big time promotion and while there are certain faces in the crowd that seem to be there each episode, they’re in the minority as they run the different cities. NXT has it’s own little community of fans, which can be a blessing & a curse

Edited October 18, 2019 by WyattSheepMask

[DavidB6937]

7 minutes ago, Pinc said:

For fans its about trying to keep up with the canon isn't it.

Now that there are so many companies at what you might call an 'ROH-ish' level, and now that its so easy to watch them all, you have to maintain fairly regular viewership of most/all of them to really feel like you have a canonical knowledge of the whole business. Picking and choosing what to watch among them can feel incomplete and ultimately less immersive/rewarding. For example - you have to be at least conversant in the goings on in New Japan over the last couple of years to properly understand the Moxley/Omega feud in AEW at the moment. In fact there are a few AEW gimmicks that assume a lot of knowledge from their work elsewhere (e.g. Riho, Dark OrdeR). And even in WWE, lots of characters' motivations are pretty opaque once they get to the main roster unless you followed them in NXT first.

So yeah, I do know what people mean about the wide amount of choice having a fatiguing effect on one's fandom. In that these days all of these different feds blur together into one canon, in a way that wasn't really true before the internet/globalisation meant that you could watch them all.

Depends what you're looking for really.

While the things you've mentioned can give a deeper understanding and enjoyment to certain feds/feuds, it isn't essential. For example, I haven't watched Japanese wrestling on a regular basis for years, yet I still enjoyed the Liger stuff recently for what it was. A quick read-up after on Wikipedia and a mini-doc on Youtube and I was well up with what was going on. But that was my choice and not a necessity.

I think that's the key point - as long as things aren't heavily reliant on being a fan of someone's work elsewhere, then that's all that matters. Especially in a completely new company like AEW. They need to be able to make their characters succeed on their own because while some of their fanbase is pretty hardcore and knows the ins and outs of the Bucks and Omega etc, a lot of the newer fans don't - and these are the ones they should be wanting to attract and retain. Admittedly it's what WWE do terribly with their NXT call-ups but that's more to do with lazy booking.

Again, it really comes down to personal choice. If you do want to keep up with everything all over the world then yes, clearly that's going to be a problem. But it's not essential in most cases.

[BrodyGraham]

26 minutes ago, Pinc said:

For fans its about trying to keep up with the canon isn't it.

Now that there are so many companies at what you might call an 'ROH-ish' level, and now that its so easy to watch them all, you have to maintain fairly regular viewership of most/all of them to really feel like you have a canonical knowledge of the whole business. Picking and choosing what to watch among them can feel incomplete and ultimately less immersive/rewarding. For example - you have to be at least conversant in the goings on in New Japan over the last couple of years to properly understand the Moxley/Omega feud in AEW at the moment. In fact there are a few AEW gimmicks that assume a lot of knowledge from their work elsewhere (e.g. Riho, Dark OrdeR). And even in WWE, lots of characters' motivations are pretty opaque once they get to the main roster unless you followed them in NXT first.

So yeah, I do know what people mean about the wide amount of choice having a fatiguing effect on one's fandom. In that these days all of these different feds blur together into one canon, in a way that wasn't really true before the internet/globalisation meant that you could watch them all.

Thanks a state of mind issue, not necessarily one with the current wrestling scene. I like Wrestling and to an extent I like to be a fan of guys on the come up, but I don't necessarily feel the need to know everyone everywhere. In fact one of my favourite things is to get that moment with a guy when you see what the fuss is about. I've been aware of Darby Allin, like a lot of people, for years but outside of a couple of shots for Progress haven't really watched him or felt compelled to delve into his stuff, mostly because I associate him with Evolve and I hate the look of their shows. It's been a joy to watch him presented by AEW though and it felt like a penny drop moment for me at Fyter Fest.

I suppose I'd liken it to when I was into the Punk/Hardcore scene. There were so many people who were into being into the scene that they seemed to forget to actually enjoy the bands and the music, because knowing was the point, not enjoying or discovering.

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by BrodyGraham

[tiger_rick]

21 minutes ago, Pinc said:

For fans its about trying to keep up with the canon isn't it.

Now that there are so many companies at what you might call an 'ROH-ish' level, and now that its so easy to watch them all, you have to maintain fairly regular viewership of most/all of them to really feel like you have a canonical knowledge of the whole business.

I think "have to" is a stretch. I've enjoyed a lot of AEW's output so far and I've not watched a minute of any US promotion bar WWE and a tiny amount of TNA in the past couple of years. I only know what I know about NJPW from scanning the thread on here occassionally.

I've got everything else from the "Road to" videos and the shows themselves and don't feel like I'm struggling with anything other than caring about certain acts. Riho and the Dark Order could have a 90 minute special on Sky Sports tonight and I doubt I'd still give a shit. I'll just see what JR and Skiavone tell me about them.

[Chris B]

37 minutes ago, Pinc said:

For example - you have to be at least conversant in the goings on in New Japan over the last couple of years to properly understand the Moxley/Omega feud in AEW at the moment. In fact there are a few AEW gimmicks that assume a lot of knowledge from their work elsewhere (e.g. Riho, Dark OrdeR).

I disagree totally on this. They're feuding because Moxley attacked Omega, and it's been building up since then. They've established that Kenny has a rep, based on his Japan work, and that Moxley went over to try and outdo him. Unless you're looking at Kenny's 'losing it without Kota' meta-angle, then the storyline is pretty simple, and still entirely works week to week.

My main takeaway from this was that Darby Allin is potentially an enormous star, even with how small he is. His charisma and the genuine sense that he doesn't give a fuck if he crashes and burns makes up for his size and shitty punches. That whole sequence with his hands behind his back was fantastic and brutal. He's got the look too (my other half says he reminds her of Aaron Paul, which I can see).

Oh, and Omega, Moxley and Pentagon all felt like bigger stars again. The pop when Moxley did the Austin spot was enormous. Omega was in a match that suited him, and as others have pointed out, terrifying bully Pentagon is great. Pac is consistent as hell, although it looked painful when he tore his fingers open on the barbed-wire bat.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Chris B

[Love-Wilcox]

Wasn’t it brilliant when Scorpio Sky came out in his street clothes and ended up wrestling in his jeans?

If that was WWE he’d have come out in full gear all oiled up and ready to go.

More of that please.

[Carbomb]

7 hours ago, Supremo said:

Watching AEW evolve and find its feet, you can really tell it's a company ran by an Observer subscriber. In almost every way, it represents the same journey I imagine most hardcore fans go on. You start off trying to convince yourself that you hate promos and skits, you hate the over-pushed top guys, you hate DQ finishes and just wish they'd push the cruiserweights and let the wrestlers wrestle, goddammit! And then over time you realise that all of that is bullshit and you're lying to yourself. The stuff you try and pretend you hate is exactly the stuff that makes pro-wrestling so great.

I agree with most of your post, but slightly with this. It's not all bullshit - there is a kernel of truth to the motivations that drive fans into smarkdom, which is that mainstream wrestling, particularly WWF/E had a tendency (and, from what I've read on here recently, it's gotten worse) to get really formulaic and "safe" in many ways. I didn't realise it at the time, but I just wanted to see a little less restraint, a little less dicking around with stupid crap in storylines, and a little less treating the crowd like idiots - but I, like a lot of smarks, ended up going completely in the opposite direction and looking for wrestling with no storylines, all of the moves, and storylines that weren't as mature or comprehensible as we thought they'd be.

For me, that got old really quickly, and I realised that mainstream wrestling gets it right for the most part - but there's still an element that tends to get lazy and lean towards mediocrity at times, and that's what switches people off. It was certainly the case with me.

[BomberPat]

1 hour ago, Chris B said:

I disagree totally on this. They're feuding because Moxley attacked Omega, and it's been building up since then.

Have they explained why Moxley attacked him, though? I remember he did a promo afterwards, but it hasn't been shown on TV, and from memory it was more "this is why I'm here in AEW" than "this is why I don't like Kenny Omega".

[Chris B]

3 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Have they explained why Moxley attacked him, though? I remember he did a promo afterwards, but it hasn't been shown on TV, and from memory it was more "this is why I'm here in AEW" than "this is why I don't like Kenny Omega".

I don't remember it as being personal to Omega. He debuted and attacked both guys in the main event - I assumed it was because they were in the main event and he wanted to make an impact. Kenny fought back, things escalated, and it's been going from there, where it's become more personal.

[Pinc]

Aye but Kenny's promo when he found out Moxley was out of their initial PPV match (his highlight so far in AEW) was all about how Moxley had gone to Japan to try and win the G-1 and emulate what Kenny had done.

It's not essential to watch New Japan to enjoy their interactions in AEW but pretty much every fed around these days (Raw and SmackDown the only real exceptions) frequently acknowledges that the characters you see on their shows also have life on other shows. It can have the effect of seeming like too much to follow, and hence oversaturation can tax people's motivation to keep up with wrestling even if they're limiting their own viewing to one or two shows a week.

[Ricc1PW]

Thought this weeks offering was the weakest Dynamite so far, but still watchable, and entertaining.

too many tag matches for me. I was pleased to see a couple of squashes though, up until this week every single match they had presented had been epic~! 100 kick outs each marathons, which leads to no clear hierarchy in terms of roster.

[DEF]

I think the general feeling of fans having to need to watch ALL wrestling comes from the fact wrestling is by and large a soap opera.

WWE have what 7 hours of TV each week plus 5 hour ppvs that if history has taught us anything COULD be interconnected at any time.

They have taught the audience for years that you need to watch everything. Why wouldn't they, it's in their best interests to keep viewers. But it's why the burn out happens. (Not to mention the stale production and booking)

AEW has no connection to WWE but it's a further 3hrs of wrestling to watch. That's 9 hours of wrestling plus ppvs just to keep up with two companies soap opera.

They can do brand splits and all that shit all they like but we all know they are gimmicks and if you actually say stopped watching one of the three brands then sooner or later (probably sooner) it would disrupt the narrative of the soap opera.

[DavidB6937]

11 minutes ago, DEF said:

I think the general feeling of fans having to need to watch ALL wrestling comes from the fact wrestling is by and large a soap opera.

WWE have what 7 hours of TV each week plus 5 hour ppvs that if history has taught us anything COULD be interconnected at any time.

They have taught the audience for years that you need to watch everything. Why wouldn't they, it's in their best interests to keep viewers. But it's why the burn out happens. (Not to mention the stale production and booking)

AEW has no connection to WWE but it's a further 3hrs of wrestling to watch. That's 9 hours of wrestling plus ppvs just to keep up with two companies soap opera.

They can do brand splits and all that shit all they like but we all know they are gimmicks and if you actually say stopped watching one of the three brands then sooner or later (probably sooner) it would disrupt the narrative of the soap opera.

But after all these years, most of us know that you really don't need to watch everything. That may be what they're aiming to convince us, but it couldn't be further from the truth.

A few Youtube highlight videos a week and some PPVs and I'm good.

[tiger_rick]

If WWE was a soap opera, it'd be Eastenders this week then next Monday - Coronation Street. Then next month, it's a special for Saudi Arabia and they've brought back Brookside.