All Tories Are Cunts thread

[d-d-d-dAz]

It’s interesting how politics has changed over time, and now it’s more about emotional responses to certain issues as opposed to any connection to the original philosophies of left or right politics.

Starmer essentially made the socialist point. Cheap imported labour, saving money on both suppressed wages and on not educating the native population, was always the preserve of the right whilst the left was in favour of training and paying domestic workers properly.

But, because instinctively the word immigration sets peoples hearts on fire, the pitch forks come out.

Hes absolutely right though, and righter on this than he has been on other issues, that the government should redouble its efforts on training British people to work in the NHS and then, on the other end, paying them correctly. The logical endpoint of that is you’ll need fewer foreign workers. It doesn’t mean you’re any less compassionate to immigrants, it just means you don’t exploit their existence to cut costs.

Edited November 6, 2022 by d-d-d-dAz

[RedRooster]

15 hours ago, Loki said:

He’s absolutely right though if you listen to the interview - successive governments have used cheaper migrant labour as a way of avoiding training and properly paying NHS staff.

Is this actually true, though? For the most part, migrant workers are taking the jobs British people either don't want to do, or highly skilled jobs that make work for others. This report from the migration observatory at the University of Oxford busts some of the "migrant workers = cheap labour" myths; and concludes that migrant workers have little effect on the average wage. Besides, it's not migrant workers who set the minimum wage, or pay brackets. 

Ultimately, the NHS has a huge shortage in staff numbers and has done for some time, and training alone won't be enough to fix that. We need migrant workers for our health service, and this isn't going to change. There's nothing to be gained through a rhetoric that potentially creates an environment that is hostile. 

[Vamp]

Have we tried paying them a decent wage?

[Devon Malcolm]

Wonder what would happen if I changed the title of this thread to include liberals and centrists.

[Keith Houchen]

Just now, Devon Malcolm said:

Wonder what would happen if I changed the title of this thread to include liberals and centrists.

They can stand the racism and anti working class rhetoric but now youve come for James O’Brien and Femi and Tanksii they have no choice but to reluctantly vote Tory through gritted teeth. 

[Loki]

On 11/6/2022 at 6:27 PM, deathrey said:

I fully appreciate that none of you may be able to answer this question, but historically, how pro immigration were Labour? During the 60's/70's when there was a big influx of people coming in from the former British Empire, were Labour generally pro or anti this?

This is all before my time, but...

The Tory 1962 Commonwealth Immigration Act set the tone for a restrictive attitude to immigration generally (although migration continued to go up across the 60s) and the Labour under Wilson was broadly aligned with that policy.

When the first Wilson Government fell in 1970 the incoming Heath ministry introduced another immigration bill, the 1971 Immigration Act .  This was a tightening further still of immigration rights, but it actually improved rights for successful immigrants from the Commonwealth in preparation for the UK's entry into the EEC (the forerunner of the EU).

The second Labour Government from 74 to 79 didn't repeal this Act, indeed if anything immigration was tightened with deportations increasing across the 70s. This was the era of the infamous "virginity tests" on women coming in from the subcontinent.

It was always the position of socialist Labour governments that immigration had to be controlled to protect British workers (and also to be honest to protect their electoral viability).  Blair-era Labour was more neo-liberal about it - with the free flow of capital comes the free movement of workers seeking improved working conditions, if you want to make a left-wing argument for it, I guess.  And immigration quadrupled under New Labour which partly fuelled the economic boom you can argue.  Immigration under Blair was, roughly, double what it was under Wilson in the 60s.  

So I would argue that Starmer's current policy is more in line with traditional socialist Labour than Blairite New Labour.  It's an acceptance that Brexit was a plebiscite on open-border immigration and a return to a more UK worker-centric policy.

 

 

 

 

[deathrey]

Thanks @LokiI've always wondered but wasn't really sure where to do unbiased research. That's a nice little summary. My dad arrived in England in the late 70's and my mum in the early 80's so whilst I know their immigration journeys quite well, neither could shed any light on the politics either at the time or before they arrived.

Edited November 8, 2022 by deathrey

[RedRooster]

If Elon Musk does kill Twitter, I'm going to miss things like this. An absolutely outstanding graphic here from the Scottish Parliament Twitter account, ahead of an event involving Tory MSP Stephen Kerr. 

[Nexus]

Just seems like a massive own goal from Sunak. He wasn't a minister with any responsibility - he was purely in there for the bants, so now both he, and Sunak, look like absolute fucking bellends. 

[Keith Houchen]

Williamson knows where bodies are buried. It’s why he got a knighthood. I’m not even sure if that’s a metaphor or not. 

[Nexus]

I thought he caught Carrie sucking off her lover in the Cabinet Office

[Matthew]

I don’t know where to ask/post this, felt this was the best fitted/least unfitted, amongst what I could see.

So I’m currently in credit with my electricity provider. With the government scheme pushing me further into credit too. So what happens with this come next year when my renewal comes up? Am I entitled to ask that they pay me that money, or would my direct debit just stop being taken for a while, whilst my credit balance is dwindled down to zero, at which point I’ll start paying again?

[PunkStep]

Energy companies are cunts (like Tories) when it comes to direct debits. They forecast mine incorrectly EVERY YEAR and raise my DD too much, so I always have to reduce it. Now they've removed the option to reduce the DD yourself (Eon), so I've emailed them to reduce it. 

I'm £580 in credit on mine, although I'm mindful that it will soon be diminish as we approach colder months with the new tariff. That said, I spent ages reconciling and calculating it and reached the conclusion that even noting this they are taking £50 too much per month, so they better reduce it. 

You can ask for a refund of the credit balance, but just beware that your bills might shoot up over the coming months. 

[Your Fight Site]

They’ll be sat earning interest off of every one’s “accidentally” incorrect estimates, too.

[Chest Rockwell]

To be fair though the price only ever goes up so if you can afford to overpay it probably works out better for you in the long run