Paid Members BomberPat Posted April 11, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Statto said: Nigel: “It’s time for tag team action!” *Singles match takes place* NXT does that sort of thing alarmingly often. Has no one told them it's pre-taped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted April 11, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Statto said: Soooo, that new open of the roster doing the Wrestlerock Rumble to a Slipknot song, in 2019... Â But they're one of the greatest bands of all time! Just ask @SuperBacon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 1 hour ago, PunkStep said: But they're one of the greatest bands of all time! Just ask @SuperBacon! Just like you lot sing that you’re “by far the greatest team the world has ever seen” eNjOy YoUr ThUrSdAy NiGhT gAmE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dopper Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Meltzer has given Gargano vs Cole 5.5 stars. That makes this - in his opinion - the best WWE match of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted April 12, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, dopper said: Meltzer has given Gargano vs Cole 5.5 stars. That makes this - in his opinion - the best WWE match of all time. 5.5* is fine. I've revised Austin/Hart to 100* as a result. Seriously, it's all a nonsense. It's one blokes opinion. If he's seriously into this stuff to the point where he feels it's better than everything that's come before then fair play to him. I can't even imagine being that excited by modern wrestling. I'm not surprised he is though, he seems to have craved this sort of environment for decades. Personally, I thought it was #3 match of the night. Let alone all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted April 12, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 12, 2019 Yeah, I didn't dig the first two falls but I was in tears by the end, with Ciampa joining Gargano and Candice on the ramp, so I can see where Dave is coming from. Would I give it a very high score like that? No. Is it better than Gargano vs Almas or Bayley vs Sasha? No. But everything from the final fall onwards was solid, highest quality gold and it made me cough a lot in order to push the lump in my throat further down by the end. Can't fault Dave for feeling that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) On 4/12/2019 at 11:44 AM, Accident Prone said: Yeah, I didn't dig the first two falls but I was in tears by the end, with Ciampa joining Gargano and Candice on the ramp, so I can see where Dave is coming from. Would I give it a very high score like that? No. Is it better than Gargano vs Almas or Bayley vs Sasha? No. But everything from the final fall onwards was solid, highest quality gold and it made me cough a lot in order to push the lump in my throat further down by the end. Can't fault Dave for feeling that. I realise I’m probably in the minority, but I fucking hated that. If they had done it after the show just for the people in attendance, I wouldn’t be bothered, but after Gargano tried to rip Ciampa’s face off with his knee brace a year earlier, and everything that happened between then and now, for all three of them, baring in mind Candice fucking hated Ciampa for “everything you’ve done to us” and how her wedding memories were ruined because Ciampa is plastered all over them, to then all go “hey! We’re all friends now!” was utter bullshit. Gargano had already had the feel-good ending in finally winning the belt, it didn’t need Ciampa there Edited April 13, 2019 by WyattSheepMask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakashi Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 I’m stunned anyone can think it’s better than Austin Bret or Taker Michaels HIAC, especially someone that’s been watching for 40 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
textonly Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 It seems ridiculous and I don't agree on any level, but in Meltzer's defense... I was just thinking about what I'd say if I was asked what my favourite era of wrestling is. So many people here seem so passionate about different times in wrestling, whether it's 80's or 90's or 00's, WWF or Memphis or Japan, but I think, for me, the answer is always "whatever's happening at the moment". I love wrestling but I tend not to look back too much. There's always so much that, for all the bad you may see, there are always parts you'll find to really love. It sounds to me like Meltzer's kind of like that too. And ratings may look like they're this objective, empirical thing, but as tiger_rick said, it's one guy's opinion, and there are a hundred reasons why he might have enjoyed Gargano/Cole more than Bret/Austin or Michaels/Taker or whatever else. Honestly, there's no right answer to what's best or better when it comes to art, just what affects you. If Meltzer was more affected by Gargano/Cole in 2019 than Bret/Austin in 1997, that's perfectly reasonable. All he's been doing for years with ratings is sharing his opinions of what he felt in a moment. It's up to everyone else whether they put any stock in it. Presuming he's being sincere and not just trolling people, fair play to him for having the conviction to say, "fuck it, I know this will annoy people, but this is how I feel", rather than trying to adhere to some kind of wrestling fan's orthodoxy about what's good and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted April 15, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 15, 2019 On 4/13/2019 at 4:51 PM, WyattSheepMask said: I realise I’m probably in the minority, but I fucking hated that. If they had done it after the show just for the people in attendance, I wouldn’t be bothered, but after Gargano tried to rip Ciampa’s face off with his knee brace a year earlier, and everything that happened between then and now, for all three of them, baring in mind Candice fucking hated Ciampa for “everything you’ve done to us” and how her wedding memories were ruined because Ciampa is plastered all over them, to then all go “hey! We’re all friends now!” was utter bullshit. Gargano had already had the feel-good ending in finally winning the belt, it didn’t need Ciampa there 100% agreed. Even if the dynamic's changed with Ciampa's injury, and them both getting the pseudo-call-up to the main roster, to reduce that feud to a jokey, "he's behind me, isn't he?" is preposterous. You could make the case that Gargano and Ciampa have moved on to a point where they're on the same page now, but Candice? Who not only hated Ciampa, but hated what her husband became when fighting Ciampa, and desperately pleaded with him not to reunite with him? She's happy just having a big old love-in at the end of the show with them both? It's part of my problem with the whole match - it was Johnny Gargano as "boyhood dream comes true" smiley pure babyface, but we're a good year removed from Gargano actually being that character. We know now that he's an emotionally volative, easily manipulated and often sadistic egotist, not the smiling good guy he was at the start of the feud, and he hasn't had sufficient character development back in the opposite direction for the shift to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 On 4/12/2019 at 8:37 AM, tiger_rick said: 5.5* is fine. I've revised Austin/Hart to 100* as a result. Seriously, it's all a nonsense. It's one blokes opinion. If he's seriously into this stuff to the point where he feels it's better than everything that's come before then fair play to him. I can't even imagine being that excited by modern wrestling. I'm not surprised he is though, he seems to have craved this sort of environment for decades. Personally, I thought it was #3 match of the night. Let alone all time. You're not wrong that it's just one person's opinion, but it's also the only opinion that a lot of online smart fans (and wrestlers by the sounds of it) actually care about.  It just feels like there's this shitty feedback loop where wrestlers put on the sort of match Meltzer will score highly, he praises them and so they do it more. I'm just a little grumpy as the sort of wrestling I like is, I suspect, pretty much a thing of the past now.  I really enjoy NXT, it's my favourite brand, but you can see they've now fully embraced this new "Shawn Michaels on fast forward" style and everyone is expected to learn how to do it.  So it'll be the ongoing WWE style for the next 5-10 years I guess unless mounting injuries force them to re-think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted April 15, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 15, 2019 So glad others feel the same about what a mess that character and storyline became. I saw people saying it was, "all worth it," for that embrace at the end, but what fucking sense did that make beyond,  "this is all fake and these lads are good mates really"? I didn't watch the TV leading into Gargano vs. Cole. Was it ever explained why Johnny reverted back to being a pure babyface? Or did he just show up on the night and pretend the last nine months hadn't happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted April 15, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, Supremo said: I didn't watch the TV leading into Gargano vs. Cole. Was it ever explained why Johnny reverted back to being a pure babyface? Or did he just show up on the night and pretend the last nine months hadn't happened? I don't know if it made TV, as I've fallen out of the habit of watching NXT weekly, but I know they filmed a Dusty Rhodes Classic final in which the aftermath was Gargano slamming Ciampa's head into the stage in an echo of the original Ciampa turn, and that was his face turn. But even then, it's him being violent and vindictive, not the Happy To Be Here babyface he apparently is back to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Showtime Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 It was the semi-final, Gargano faked an injury (ages into a competitive match), Ciampa lost, then he tried to do the same to Johnny on the ramp that he did way back when, and Gargano reversed it. Candice was on the ramp too, delighted with what her hubby did to evil Ciampa. Then Trips came out the following week and said Ciampa was injured and he can't make them face each other for the title at Takeover. I knew Ciampa was injured (didn't know how bad) but why wasn't it kayfabe because of what Gargano did to him? They still aired it yet went on to pretend it didn't happen. That's what irked me the most. A rare misstep by NXT storytelling, for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted April 15, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted April 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Loki said: You're not wrong that it's just one person's opinion, but it's also the only opinion that a lot of online smart fans (and wrestlers by the sounds of it) actually care about.  It just feels like there's this shitty feedback loop where wrestlers put on the sort of match Meltzer will score highly, he praises them and so they do it more. I'm just a little grumpy as the sort of wrestling I like is, I suspect, pretty much a thing of the past now.  I really enjoy NXT, it's my favourite brand, but you can see they've now fully embraced this new "Shawn Michaels on fast forward" style and everyone is expected to learn how to do it.  So it'll be the ongoing WWE style for the next 5-10 years I guess unless mounting injuries force them to re-think. I can't say it excites me that much either. When it's done well, it's great. But it'll be a shame if that's all there is. Unfortunately as long as they are polishing guys in their own image constantly, it's going to continue. That said, I'm surprised that this is the style. Considering post attitude era all you heard was how guys need to slow down and make things mean something and you had Trips doing his pound shop Flair impression while they attempted (badly) to recreate mid-south. I thought the Randy Orton would be the prototype for their production line talent rather than early 2000s indy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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