The King Of Swing Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I'm not surprised by UKIP's success in Wales. I just hate it. I still come across people that won't forgive Labour for "letting them all in" under Blair, like immigration only ever existed under Blair and Brown. It's fucking depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted May 8, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted May 8, 2016 Bristol's turned into a bit of a glorious clusterfuck. It's the first time we've had all out elections and thus the first time we've had multi-member wards where you vote for two candidates but don't rank them. It sounds like a lot of people only voted for one candidate, with the result that in virtually every case, of the two candidates from the same party, the one higher up the alphabet/ballot paper got more votes. It also means several wards where you'd expect one party to get both seats have instead got one each from the top two local parties, meaning we've unintentionally got more proportional representation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Dude Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I don't quite get the surprise at UKIP winning seats in Wales. They got 13.6% in Wales for the General election when people knew they were likely wasting their vote, so if anything they underperformed by getting 12% in the list votes this time. It's just that 12% in a proportional system gets you a bunch of seats. The Welsh system is scarcely worthy of being labelled PR. It was designed to get Labour 50% of the seats (or very close to it) even on a bad day, and it works for them. It also means several wards where you'd expect one party to get both seats have instead got one each from the top two local parties, meaning we've unintentionally got more proportional representation. This is a welcome development, but an actual proportional method for all local elections in England and Wales would be an even better solution. Not about to happen with a Tory majority at Westminster, though. Only had police elections here in Somerset. Voted Green/Lib Dem to no avail. The Westcountry bucked the trend of independents losing. Three of the five PCCs in the South West now account for 100% of non-party Commissioners across England and Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted May 9, 2016 Moderators Share Posted May 9, 2016 I don't quite get the surprise at UKIP winning seats in Wales. They got 13.6% in Wales for the General election when people knew they were likely wasting their vote, so if anything they underperformed by getting 12% in the list votes this time. It's just that 12% in a proportional system gets you a bunch of seats. Its a hangover from being a traditionally socialist nation. Even the mere mention of UKIP in my local results in mass indignation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Speaking of Wales, Leanne Wood nearly had a wonderful coup on her hands, but a vote to nominate a new First Minister is deadlocked. If the deadlock isn't broken in 28 days, a new election will be triggered. I can't see that going well for Plaid, if it's seen that they've done a deal with the Tories and fucking Neil Hamilton to try and usurp the democratic process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted May 11, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) The Welsh Labour spin machine is in overdrive tonight. Not a fucking chance was there a deal between Plaid, the Tories or UKIP. Its the opposition parties who are frustrated after 17 years of a 'tired' Lab Government, this is no Rainbow Coalition, just a bit of muscle flexing. Edited May 12, 2016 by garynysmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Whether they've done a deal or not is irrelevant, unfortunately. It's all down to how well Labour can cement the message they have. The same way the Tories spun the story of a dodgy deal between Ed and Nicola Sturgeon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted May 12, 2016 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2016 Plaid Cymru would never work with UKIP or the Conservatives. Trust me on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) Just responding the the critiques of centrism in the Labour Party on the previous page. Personally, I don't feel the issue is where on the spectrum you might identify the Labour Party to be. I believe the reason the centrists are failing is that they have a lack of conviction and a lack of fresh ideas. Without conviction or new ideas you have a set of politicians micromanaged by media trainers spouting either policy that is hopelessly out of date and out of tune with the challenges we face today or are just spouting waffle that they think people want to hear. I don't believe centrism and principle to be mutually exclusive qualities. I'm a member of the Labour Party, probably just to the left of Blair. I have my own beliefs that are consistent with most of the core Labour beliefs in the manifesto, that may differ from the beliefs that supporters of Momentum might have- I don't have any reason to abandon my principles for any specific agenda, so I assure you, it is possible to be both principled and a centrist within the Labour Party. On Corbyn, I didn't vote for him. I agree with him on some issues, disagree on others but he has the mandate and I do recognise efforts to reach out to other areas of the party. I feel it's time for some of the more vocal members to the right of the PLP like John Mann to pipe down and focus on getting rid of the Tories rather than the leadership. The time will come to challenge the leadership, but there is no appetite for that yet and I'd suggest that said members follow Chuka Umunna and Stella Creasy's lead in developing a new direction for the right of the Labour Party (Umunna has been campaigning for federalism and electoral reform, Creasy has been championing the role of Co-Operatives and mutualisation as an alternative to nationalisation) that attempts to face the social and economic challenges in 2016, rather than the challenges from 1997. Edited May 12, 2016 by AVM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted May 13, 2016 Moderators Share Posted May 13, 2016 http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/13/september-11-saudi-arabia-congressional-report-terrorism So, interesting for a few reasons this. One, that it validates shit that was previously dismissed by many as conspiracy. More interesting, though, is the fact that it's coming out now, in light of what's going on with the oil market at the moment... Hopefully this is a sign that the US is drawing some distance between themselves and Saudi Arabia, which hopefully means we will follow suit. I don't expect anyone to be held accountable, I don't expect us to outright condemn Saudi even though they are a fucking disgrace, but realistically, I can hope that this is the start of the erosion of that relationship. Our relationship with Saudi is probably the thing I am most ashamed about that is done in our names on the world stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted June 3, 2016 Moderators Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Anyone watched that Vice behind the scenes with JC documentary? Any good? I haven't yet; planning to check it out at some point over the weekend.. Edited June 3, 2016 by Chest Rockwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinc Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Anyone watched that Vice behind the scenes with JC documentary? Any good? I haven't yet; planning to check it out at some point over the weekend.. It's definitely worth the 33 minutes, though it isn't quite the warts and all doc it might have been. Corbyn's camp seem to have had veto over when Vice could and couldn't film, which they exercised a few times. I think the presenter says they weren't allowed to film for 5 days following Livingstone's suspension from the party. Corbyn comes across quite as he always does; as a principled man possibly out of his depth with a worrying inability to hide his obvious antipathy towards the media. Much of the antipathy is well earned of course, but you fear (well, I do) that his often-touted unelectability will prove a self-fulfilling prophecy if he isn't eventually able to better parry the muck thrown at him by the press. When he does let the Vice crew back in to ask him some pretty soft questions about anit-semitism in the party he looks ready to jaw the fella. Edited June 3, 2016 by Pinc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted June 3, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted June 3, 2016 Saudi Arabia are probably the worst country in the entire world. As much as everyone blames the west for the problems in the Middle East I would personally lay the majority of the blame at the Saudis feet. I could talk for hours on how the ruling family and elite are a cancer on this planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Saudi Arabia are probably the worst country in the entire world. As much as everyone blames the west for the problems in the Middle East I would personally lay the majority of the blame at the Saudis feet. I could talk for hours on how the ruling family and elite are a cancer on this planet. And how the Western world colludes to help and assist them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted June 3, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted June 3, 2016 Anyone watched that Vice behind the scenes with JC documentary? Any good? I haven't yet; planning to check it out at some point over the weekend.. Watched it last night & found it to be pretty interesting. The biggest surprise was how well he's received when he's out & about amongst the general public. If you were anti-Corbyn before watching it I don't think it'll do much to change your opinion of him but I found it hard to dislike him. He just seems like a lovely bloke who honestly believes we can do better. His lack of charisma, in the traditional sense & the aforementioned inability to mask his contempt for the press will likely be his undoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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