Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 11, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted June 11, 2017 On ‎09‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 3:21 PM, JNLister said: I'd say there's three main differences: 1) With a parliamentary system, the PM is virtually always from the same party that has control of the parliament (insert Teresa May gag here.) With a presidential system, they may be from different political parties. Parliamentary is better if you want to be sure the PM has a good chance of regularly getting legislation through (insert Teresa May gag here, repeat where necessary.) Presidential is better if you like the idea they might have to negotiate. Connected to that is the fact that with a Presidential system, the elections for President/legislature are often at different times, so you have a chance to strengthen/weaken the President mid-term without having to get rid of them. It also means the President has to be thinking about elections more often, which is good for accountability but bad if you think populism isn't necessary good politics. 2) Generally a President is for a fixed term whereas some Parliamentary systems allow for elections at a time of the government's choosing. The Presidential system is thus good if you think giving people a solid run at the job without having to worry about re-election is useful. On the downside, it can mean a lame duck period where they've lost their popularity/power/authority but there's no real way to replace them. If a PM is personally unpopular, there's usually the option for the party to replace them mid-term. (Most of the UK Prime Ministers in my lifetime took office mid-term rather than winning an election.) 3) Generally in Parliamentary systems the government/cabinet comes from elected MPs (and the odd Lord here.) In the US system at least, the cabinet is made up of people who aren't in the legislature. Again, that comes down to whether you think it's a good idea for people running government departments to have to think about being re-elected.   Thanks very much for that. The only thing I knew for certain was that parliamentary systems tend to be able to get more done and avoid gridlock, but the other stuff makes a lot of sense. Think I prefer the parliamentary system. It has fewer checks and balances, but it seems to me to be preferable to have a bit more of an "all-or-nothing" approach when it comes to national politics. That said, I've long favoured a federal system for the UK; whilst it's not a popular view, I do think there should be an English parliament to join the Welsh and Northern Irish Assemblies and the Scottish Parliament, to deal with regional issues, a bit like a state senate. In all honesty, I even think there should be a Northern English parliament and a Southern one, given just how large the population is. De-centralisation strikes me as the best way to go when it comes to immediate, local issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 So, it's all happening a bit today. Davis resigns after getting the taxi he wasn't supposed to be able to get. Johnson has gone as well. Laura Kuenssberg on twitter reporting that there's 48 tory MPs ready to force a confidence vote. What happens then? If she loses a confidence vote, is she forced to resign, and we just get a new PM with no election? One of Rees-Mogg, Johnson or Gove? I used to think May was the gold standard for hopelessly shit PMs, but then any of those three have surely got a great shot at going above and beyond her shitedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I think May could still run as part of any leadership contest is she gets a certain % of Tory MPs to nominate her? (like anyone else that wants to run really) Its all a bit odd, as theres now no form of brexit that can garner a majority in parliament. Not enough hard brexit backers, soft brexit backers or MPs that simply want to stay in/another referendum. It could be a case of being careful what you wish for on all sides as theres a potential for a type of brexit pergatory if nothing is agreeable. Arguable of course, but I think what was proposed at Checkers had the fairest balance for all sides, Britain, the EU and all sides of the commons, but currently nobody wants to give up ground and purely wants what they see as the right type of brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2018 I'm actually worried about Johnson or Rees-Mogg getting the premiership. This country has always been right-leaning, and it seems particularly right-wing at the moment, to the point where I strongly believe that anyone who voted Tory before and was considering not voting for them because of May will now view anyone "new" as a clean slate and thus an excuse to continue voting for them. No matter how bad things get with this lot, there will always be people voting for them or against Labour, because apparently, in some nebulous, mystic way, somehow Corbyn/Labour/socialism is worse than anything the Tories can do. There are still loads of people out there buying the lies that Labour caused the world's entire economy to collapse somehow, that a socialist Labour will bankrupt the country (despite the fact that a country's economics do not = an individual's/household's economics), and that the current Labour leadership are the same as the one led by Blair that people now hate, despite putting forward policies that are wildly different from New Labour's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoote Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 As I understand it, it needs 50 Conservatives to petition the 1922 Committee for a leadership vote. Simple majority required. If she loses that vote, she will be obliged to stand down and will not be allowed to join the leadership contest. It's different to a full House no confidence vote, which has no weight except by tradition and precedent. Â We've had Davis, who has resigned from posts before, go, and then just before May's statement, Boris jumps. Rumours that more could happen, in an attempt to force May to drop the Chequers statement and go back to the table. Â She's a stubborn old goat, so don't expect her to go easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Sergio Mendacious Posted July 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2018 Obviously you get Farage parachuted in as a peer, to become Tory leader and the PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted July 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2018 Am I right in thinking IF they push through a no confidence vote to may they would have to run another General Election, or would they just be able to nominate a new leader like they did with David Cameron? Surely they can't just replace the leader twice in a row or am I just being naive/hopeful for another election? Just now, Sergio Mendacious said: Obviously you get Farage parachuted in as a peer, to become Tory leader and the PM. he will be discussing his political future on his LBCÂ show tonight at 7pm according to his twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoote Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 They could nominate a new leader, but that would need approval from the Queen (a formality), and informally from Labour. In the event that it can't get confidence back, then I *think* Labour get first dibs on a minority government, failing that, we go to the polls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Sergio Mendacious said: Obviously you get Farage parachuted in as a peer, to become Tory leader and the PM. Fucking hell, you saw that Melanie Phillips bullshit too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoote Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Â Oh God, it's happening isn't it. Â Â Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Sergio Mendacious Posted July 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, Carbomb said: Fucking hell, you saw that Melanie Phillips bullshit too? I did — I've never seen anyone more viciously taken apart in the comments, and I follow Tomi Lahren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2018 Tomi Lahren is...I guess the charitable phrasing would be "extreme anti-intellectual". I get the backlash against intellectuals - whilst I don't think it's right, I can see why people immediately think "ivory tower, out-of-touch", etc. What I don't get is this standpoint of being so anti-intellectual that they end up prizing completely cretinous and ignorant viewpoints as being on an equal footing with anyone who's done even an hour's research on the topic they're discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted July 9, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted July 9, 2018 Jeremy Hunt as foreign secretary. If he treats the FCO like he has treated the department of health we will be at war within the week and will be fighting it with a privatised army run by Field Marshall Branson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 So, The Times are reporting that there are around 50+ Tory MPs now prepared to trigger a vote of no confidence in May, at that point May would need, and will probably have, 160 Tory MPs to support her and keep her as leader of the party. The whole thing is pretty mad, absolute civil war and there is no chance of it all ending with anybody getting what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Isn't it terrible how despite the tories being so utterly shit, they're still ahead of Labour in the polls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts