Paid Members SpursRiot2012 Posted August 13, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Seems really odd that you'd want citizenship of a place that is like that. It's a case of asking what your country can do for you, not what you can do for your country. Quite frankly, I can see why you'd not ever be considered Irish and be resented by them. The racist stuff can fuck right off though. I still don't understand what you meant by "certain sectors", can you explain that? I don't really care if Irish people born and living in Ireland consider me Irish or not. I've spent a lot of time in Ireland and my Irish roots go back an incredibly long way. I'm comfortable and confident in my level of Irishness and if anybody on seeing me with an Irish passport would like to question that, I'll be happy to have that conversation. But, yes, absolutely, I want citizenship because of the benefits it gives me. I have no problem admitting that. I don't owe any country anything - that includes the UK, as well. I'm a proud citizen of nowhere, even if being a citizen of nowhere requires me to actually be a citizen of two nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lorne Malvo Posted August 13, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 It's probably just the rural areas that are racist, I'm sure the big cities are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 13, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 minute ago, SpursRiot2012 said: But, yes, absolutely, I want citizenship because of the benefits it gives me. I have no problem admitting that. I don't owe any country anything - that includes the UK, as well. I'm a proud citizen of nowhere, even if being a citizen of nowhere requires me to actually be a citizen of two nations. This is something I do wonder about, myself. You don't get to decide where you live or grow up, and there's no "global citizenship" officially on offer, so the whole "what you can do for your country" argument can seem a bit odd. That said, it can only go so far. Ultimately, you have to be somewhere, and you have to participate in a human society, which is invariably a cooperative effort, so eventually you'll have to think about paying back in if you're choosing to enjoy its benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, SpursRiot2012 said: But, yes, absolutely, I want citizenship because of the benefits it gives me. I have no problem admitting that. How very Tory of you. Certain Sections refers to members of the populace who are more "Irish than thou", but as you've said you don't give a fuck about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members SpursRiot2012 Posted August 13, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Keith Houchen said: How very Tory of you Sorry, Keith, but you can fuck right off with that. I pay my fair share in my country of residence. I do more than my fair share, even, if you consider raising money for charity at a loss to myself, for example, as doing more than ones fair share. But, frankly, successive governments have done basically fuck all for me and people like me, at my level in society. What "my country has done for me" is the bare fucking minimum they could get away with. Yet I'm expected to do, what? Go off and fight for in their wars? Work for their shitty opinion of what a "living wage" is? Please, tell me more about how much I owe this great nation of ours that has, in both Brexit and politics in general, shown that it doesn't care one iota about me or people like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 It's not about this country, It's about you getting citizenship for a country you have no intention of benefiting and all to do with it benefiting you, you've already said that yourself. It's 100% selfish by you own definition and therefore Tory as fuck. If you were going to live and work there, that would be different. Although I remember you saying you were quitting the UK after the referendum so if this is part of that plan, then apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Cod Eye Posted August 13, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 21 minutes ago, SpursRiot2012 said: Sorry, Keith, but you can fuck right off with that. I pay my fair share in my country of residence. I do more than my fair share, even, if you consider raising money for charity at a loss to myself, for example, as doing more than ones fair share. But, frankly, successive governments have done basically fuck all for me and people like me, at my level in society. What "my country has done for me" is the bare fucking minimum they could get away with. Yet I'm expected to do, what? Go off and fight for in their wars? Work for their shitty opinion of what a "living wage" is? Please, tell me more about how much I owe this great nation of ours that has, in both Brexit and politics in general, shown that it doesn't care one iota about me or people like me. It's obviously your prerogative to have the outlook you do, but Keith is right. Your reasons for getting Irish/dual citizenship(for how it benefits you personally, with no care for how it affects the many/the country it's self) is a very Tory-esque attitude. Your politics in general may not be right leaning, but that outlook on your dual nationality is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Cod Eye said: It's obviously your prerogative to have the outlook you do, but Keith is right. Your reasons for getting Irish/dual citizenship(for how it benefits you personally, with no care for how it affects the many/the country it's self) is a very Tory-esque attitude. Your politics in general may not be right leaning, but that outlook on your dual nationality is. Quite right, which is why I made the distinction between the process being tory, not the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members SpursRiot2012 Posted August 13, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) All right. That's fine. You're perfectly entitled to view my claiming my entitlement to Irish citizenship as selfish because it only benefits me (and my future children). I got three hours sleep last night, am at work with a banging headache, and have just lost the will to argue about it. You win. To answer your question Keith: yes, we do indeed still plan to move to Europe once me and her both get our citizenship issues sorted. It's unlikely to be Ireland: the opportunities in both our fields are not there in abundance and I really don't want to subject my partner to almost guaranteed daily racist abuse.) Out of interest, Keith, how much time did you spend living and working in Ireland? Edited August 13, 2018 by SpursRiot2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, SpursRiot2012 said: To answer your question Keith: yes, we do indeed still plan to move to Europe once me and her both get our citizenship issues sorted. It's unlikely to be Ireland: the opportunities in both our fields are not there in abundance and I really don't want to subject my partner to almost guaranteed daily racist abuse.) I guess having citizenship to an EU country will smooth out that process massively so it makes sense to have it. Yeah Dublin may have the opportunities, Cork to a lesser extent but I find those places pretty expensive and as you say, last thing you want in your life is daily racist abuse. Hopefully other countries don't have the same problem. Due to my worsening health, I haven't lived or worked there for quite a few years now and probably never will again. Manchester is my home. Despite being a proper 100% potato wog, I get the old "You aren't proper" and my folks had resentment as they moved over here when Kool Keith was a baby and retired back in Ireland. Quite honestly that kind of mentality doesn't want to make me move back there. However, this is their home town I'm talking about, not the whole country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, SpursRiot2012 said: It's unlikely to be Ireland: the opportunities in both our fields are not there in abundance and I really don't want to subject my partner to almost guaranteed daily racist abuse.) You'll want to avoid Spain as well then, because the racism in Spain is off the fucking scale, especially out in "proper Spanish" areas away from the shiny, fake tourist areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members SpursRiot2012 Posted August 13, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 minute ago, David said: You'll want to avoid Spain as well then, because the racism in Spain is off the fucking scale, especially out in "proper Spanish" areas away from the shiny, fake tourist areas. Interesting. Me and her have been all over Spain (away from the shiny, fake tourist areas) and have never experienced any outwardly obvious racism towards her - could be bubbling under the surface or something. Is there a particular race they have an issue with or just anyone that doesn't look Spanish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted August 13, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted August 13, 2018 David, don't you or didn't you live out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, SpursRiot2012 said: Interesting. Me and her have been all over Spain (away from the shiny, fake tourist areas) and have never experienced any outwardly obvious racism towards her - could be bubbling under the surface or something. Is there a particular race they have an issue with or just anyone that doesn't look Spanish? Spain is a very Catholic, traditional country with undertones of Franco still in existence in my opinion. The way they simply crushed the Catalan independence movement was a prime example of that. It's a weird old place, as you'd assume that having a party knows as Partido Socialista Obrero Español in power would be a good thing, but the leader of that party, Pedro Sánchez, supported measures to take control of the regional administration last year and sack the last Catalan government. Not terribly left-wing I'm sure you'd agree. Unemployment in Spain is at 16.1%, compared to 4.1% in the UK, which will give you an idea of the severity of the work situation over there, which I think is behind the racist undertones. Aside from that, you need to bear in mind that most places aren't as simple as the UK when it comes to setting up business, and so on. Even as a freelancer if that's your plan. Basically, despite being an EU citizen you can't just walk in and set up home. You'll have to go to the local police station to register, which in itself is a complete fucking ball ache. You'll find little by way of English speakers, so make sure your conversational Spanish is up to the job. You'll arrive at 9am for the place opening to find a queue out the door, which will mean waiting to get in. They then hand you a ticket, and you wait for another hour or two before being called to a desk, handed a form to fill in (in Spanish, naturally) and asked to come back later in the week, at which time you need to queue outside, come in, get a ticket etc etc. Oh, and you'll need bank statements that show you can support yourself and any dependents. The amount of money you need to have differs depending on where you are, and how the police officer who reads your papers is feeling that day. You also need private health care. And if you're not working in a job provided by a Spanish employer you must register autónomo, which means that you pay €265 per month, every month. It doesn't matter what you make. If you make €20 in any given month, you still need to pay the full amount. Certain discounts are given out now and then to certain groups, such as women under 35 etc, but they change frequently. On top of that you must pay IVA, which is 21% now I believe, and there's no minimum threshold. Also, if you plan on doing business with other businesses and not just the public then you'll need to look into Retenciones, which will be paid to the Agencia Tributaria as advance income tax. In short, it's a fucking nightmare, and within about three months you'll be longing for the good old streets of London town. 34 minutes ago, PunkStep said: David, don't you or didn't you live out there? Indeed I did, I spent 8 months in Madrid, a total of 4 years or so in Malaga, and another six months on the Canary Islands. I'm home now though, enjoying the rain and Boris Johnson's shite banter. Edited August 13, 2018 by David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Dude Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 On 8/13/2018 at 3:22 PM, David said: Spain is a very Catholic, traditional country with undertones of Franco still in existence in my opinion. The way they simply crushed the Catalan independence movement was a prime example of that. It's a weird old place, as you'd assume that having a party knows as Partido Socialista Obrero Español in power would be a good thing, but the leader of that party, Pedro Sánchez, supported measures to take control of the regional administration last year and sack the last Catalan government. Not terribly left-wing I'm sure you'd agree. You're making the Guardian-style mistake of thinking the Catalan separatist movement isn't led by the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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