The The Undertaker Is A Twat Thread

[David]

Wasn't it more to do with the respect and sway he held in the locker room and with management more than his actual toughness? He was a guy who consistently put in 100%, was a "company man" in an era when he could have spat the dummy and walked for more cash, and who was generally Vince's lieutenant backstage?

I'm not sure he was known for throwing hands or being a bar-brawler, was he? Most guys his size who have had multiple surgeries during their career aren't usually the type for that kind of thing.

Now, people can not like the guy as a person, but I find it rather odd to look back at one of the most storied and successful careers in the game and try to pick it apart just because he wasn't tougher than Tracy Smothers and isn't afraid to voice his opinions on those around him when he feels they're not performing up to the level they should. 

Again, is he a dick? Most likely. He's a white guy creeping towards his sixties who was born in Texas. He's never going to be a progressive liberal. 

But his actual body of work can't really be questioned, can it? We're not looking back on a 30 year plus career and deciding it wasn't all that because he's a bit of a knob, are we?

[Jesse]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think what people are referring to is Taker's own belief that he was a great fighter, and him talking about how he could have competed in the UFC etc when by all accounts he is a grown man pretending to be a zombie who was less known for being handy in a fight backstage than he was being the management's special boy.

So not to do with his in-ring career so much as his bullshit outside of it.

[David]

4 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think what people are referring to is Taker's own belief that he was a great fighter, and him talking about how he could have competed in the UFC etc when by all accounts he is a grown man pretending to be a zombie who was less known for being handy in a fight backstage than he was being the management's special boy.

Well, he didn't actually say he could have competed in the UFC, did he? I may have missed something, but he said:

"It was probably 15 years ago, maybe more. UFC was really coming along, and I’ve always liked tests, testing myself in one way or another. I boxed a little coming up as a kid in my late teens but I think if I had had any kind of wrestling pedigree, I might have just tried to dip my toe in there. My love has always been for the WWE and what we do. I just thoroughly enjoy what we do. Occasionally, you want to test the waters and see how you match up with people’s different genres and sports. That was probably the biggest reason why I didn’t, and probably Vince would’ve had a coronary. He would’ve said, ‘You want to do what?’ He would’ve probably balked at the idea, but I think if I had a stronger amateur wrestling background, I might have tested the waters."

Him saying if he had an amateur wrestling background he'd have considered the UFC is totally different from him saying that he could have competed. He even says he'd have "tested the waters" which isn't exactly claiming he's going on a title run.

In fact, for someone who everyone claims has this self-belief that he's a great fighter, it's surprising for him to say this when asked if he'd face Lesnar in the UFC Octagon:

"Fuck no. What are you smoking? Never mind [laughs], what are you fucking crazy?”

Hardly the kind of talk you'd expect from a self-professed hardman, is it? I think it's now popular to shit on Undertaker and a lot of stuff is taken out of context and used against him just because it's convenient. 

[Accident Prone]

16 hours ago, Chili said:

Where's that pic of him in his SS shirt when doing one of the WWF European tours. 

The Last Ride doc definitely turned me completely off him, from his wardrobe of awful slogan klaxons to that tragic scene where he's in full gear next to Bret Hart, a stroke survivor and much older, but Bret looks so more healthy and content. 

No wonder Undertaker spent decades trying to protect his character and keep kayfabe as he's an absolute bellend with daddy issues in real life.

[BomberPat]

he's like Triple H on Tough Enough, in that he talks up a lot of the territory days as if he was slumming it working Mid-South and Memphis for a hot dog and a handshake for years on his way up, when they both got signed to WCW within a year or two of debuting, and had a fairly easy ride of it.

Undertaker in particular does a lot of "in the old days, when men were men, and there were real tough guys in the locker room" chat, when he went out of his way to ride with a ring announcer rather than hang around said old tough guys. 

Just in general, I hate the rhetoric of "wrestlers were tougher back then" - partly because it's needless toxic machismo bullshit, but also because there's a near guarantee that any wrestling locker room today is more likely to contain people who have either fought professionally or at least trained to fight for real, rather than some big lugs who gained their reputation from bar-fighting. 

[Jesse]

1 hour ago, David said:

Well, he didn't actually say he could have competed in the UFC, did he? I may have missed something, but he said:

"It was probably 15 years ago, maybe more. UFC was really coming along, and I’ve always liked tests, testing myself in one way or another. I boxed a little coming up as a kid in my late teens but I think if I had had any kind of wrestling pedigree, I might have just tried to dip my toe in there. My love has always been for the WWE and what we do. I just thoroughly enjoy what we do. Occasionally, you want to test the waters and see how you match up with people’s different genres and sports. That was probably the biggest reason why I didn’t, and probably Vince would’ve had a coronary. He would’ve said, ‘You want to do what?’ He would’ve probably balked at the idea, but I think if I had a stronger amateur wrestling background, I might have tested the waters."

Him saying if he had an amateur wrestling background he'd have considered the UFC is totally different from him saying that he could have competed. He even says he'd have "tested the waters" which isn't exactly claiming he's going on a title run.

In fact, for someone who everyone claims has this self-belief that he's a great fighter, it's surprising for him to say this when asked if he'd face Lesnar in the UFC Octagon:

"Fuck no. What are you smoking? Never mind [laughs], what are you fucking crazy?”

Hardly the kind of talk you'd expect from a self-professed hardman, is it? I think it's now popular to shit on Undertaker and a lot of stuff is taken out of context and used against him just because it's convenient. 

That's fair, and I think BomberPat has a better assessment of his shite than I did (which you've rightly picked apart). 

 

1 hour ago, David said:

We're not looking back on a 30 year plus career and deciding it wasn't all that because he's a bit of a knob, are we?

I think this is more what I was trying to respond to. It's something I haven't seen happening in this thread, unless I'm skipping over some posts - in general people aren't saying he's a shite wrestler or that his career was rubbish, just that every time he drops the gimmick to do something outside of it he comes across as a bellend.

[d-d-d-dAz]

I think Undertaker is a lower-case t ‘twat’, in that he holds some objectionable views and comes across as quite boorish and ignorant. But, in his defence, wrestling is absolutely full of upper-case t ‘Twats!’.

In the pro-wrestling twat leaderboard, he’s not even in the top half I wouldn’t have thought.

[The King Of Swing]

6 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

I think Undertaker is a lower-case t ‘twat’, in that he holds some objectionable views and comes across as quite boorish and ignorant. But, in his defence, wrestling is absolutely full of upper-case t ‘Twats!’.

In the pro-wrestling twat leaderboard, he’s not even in the top half I wouldn’t have thought.

Fair assessment. 

I just assume that most of the wrestlers I grew up watching are/were probably massive bellends off camera.

Even today that probably still applies. 

[Chili]

All the Wrestlers Court bollocks. Judge Taker and all that. If Steve Blackman spin kicked him in his gob at an airport it'd be different. 

[theringmaster]

43 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

he's like Triple H on Tough Enough, in that he talks up a lot of the territory days as if he was slumming it working Mid-South and Memphis for a hot dog and a handshake for years on his way up, when they both got signed to WCW within a year or two of debuting, and had a fairly easy ride of it.

Undertaker in particular does a lot of "in the old days, when men were men, and there were real tough guys in the locker room" chat, when he went out of his way to ride with a ring announcer rather than hang around said old tough guys. 

Just in general, I hate the rhetoric of "wrestlers were tougher back then" - partly because it's needless toxic machismo bullshit, but also because there's a near guarantee that any wrestling locker room today is more likely to contain people who have either fought professionally or at least trained to fight for real, rather than some big lugs who gained their reputation from bar-fighting. 

Triple H is another classic example of believing his own hype. The guy thinks he is genuinely a hard ass when, like Taker, he's just been a yes man all his career so never actually faced any physical opposition.

[pitseleh]

I surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet.

 

[Vamp]

Only a real man would wear purple washing up gloves in public. 

[unfitfinlay]

Surely his reputation for toughness stems from his working hurt, etc, rather than how he’d do in a fight? Doing that Elimination Chamber match, as planned, after getting burned by his pyro was insane.

He is a bellend though. I think my biggest criticism of him is, that as the Locker Room Leader, he was responsible for just how toxic it was. Just a total bullying culture where people were getting beat up and harassed for even the most minor offences. Rene Dupree didn’t go out drinking once, because he wasn’t invited, so ‘Taker got the rest of them to destroy his clothes. He got the Hardys to vandalise Don Callis’ car too, because  Callis was a bit quiet. Then there’s the WCW Invasion….

He had enough respect that he could’ve stopped all of that that shite single handedly but he seemingly enjoyed it, probably because he was never going to be a target.

[NavigatorFan]

13 hours ago, Louch said:

Cause as I said, in the future he can have a session where he only signs a few of those items, and can charge a few grand a signature to do so. Why sign for 200 now when you can get 2 grand later on? 

Louch.......should be called Grouch.

I think it was clear that I know very little on the subject of autographs.

I'm guessing the cards he won't sign are rare...but event tickets won't be, or are these old event tix we are talking about? 

I still don't get it and guess I never will.  If he limits his sigs and charges more surely this would just increase their worth and the owner would still make more than taker. Again I have no idea but in my mind flooding the market with autographs would ensure he ultimately gets a better payday than the collective of people who pay for them? 

[Tommy!]

He's overrated as a wrestler in my opinion. That's not to say he wasn't good at what he did, he was a great near the top but not "the guy" special attraction with the right opponents and did have some great matches over the years but he seems to believe he's some super worker based on tenure and wwe push him seemingly for the same reason.

Also people overlook how shit big runs of his were, Jan 93 until Foley arrived in 96 and his return in 2000 until he got the hump at not being in the main with batista at mania were mired in absolute shite, including seemingly endless runs of some boring slub like IRS and Karma stealing his urn to set up a snore fest or two.

He also massively exposed him self as a shit head in 2000 & 2001 being a cunt with most of the roster. If he's that good and special why's he so worried about people like Angle, DDP or Kanyon stealing his spot, the nob. Unless he's just making them "pay thier dues" on the way into the company just like he fucking didn't the big fucking fanny. 

And now he talks of looking back wistfully at a better time when men were men, and by that he means they were pilled up, alcoholic, rapists or all the above. They shit in each others lunch and bags, unless you kept a big knife in there to show how double tough you are.

He can charge what he likes to sign shit, if people pay it that's thier choice and cement it as acceptable value, but not personalising stuff seems like exactly the sort of thing a sour faced miserable cunt like him would do so he doesn't have to speak to anyone while he's getting a payday. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Tommy!