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Death of the Union.


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I'm going to assume many of us took notice of the polling in the Sunday Times? A majority of sweaties and spud munchers want independence from the UK, and now us Sheepshaggers are up to a third which has got to be a record.

 

Do you think the union will survive? Do you think it should survive? Where do you fall on it? Personally, I'm firmly in the independence category. I donate monthly to Yes Cymru which is probably the largest Pro-Indy pressure group at the moment in Wales. And they've got great merch.

 

This video they posted the other day on twitter (And quickly deleted) was a misstep though.

 

 

 

 

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I'm an anti-unionist who wants England to be cut off and left to murder itself from within, and then for a Merseychester republic to emerge and declare independence from beneath the rubble. Fuck the U

England are only interested in a union of nations if they’re the ones in charge. I think a lot of English people subscribe to this. You hear them go on about how we are an island nation, so they don’t

I think only butch wants to submit to the iron rule of Cerys Matthews. 

England are only interested in a union of nations if they’re the ones in charge. I think a lot of English people subscribe to this. You hear them go on about how we are an island nation, so they don’t actually care about norn irn if they actually think that. 

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I'm an anti-unionist who wants England to be cut off and left to murder itself from within, and then for a Merseychester republic to emerge and declare independence from beneath the rubble. Fuck the United Kingdom and best of luck to the Jocks, Taffies and Paddies.

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35 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

England are only interested in a union of nations if they’re the ones in charge. I think a lot of English people subscribe to this. You hear them go on about how we are an island nation, so they don’t actually care about norn irn if they actually think that. 

I don't think anyone actively dislikes anything about NI, it's just that they don't understand or know anything about it and they don't care to.

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The Union is fucked already really. Borders in the Irish Sea, borders in Kent, the mad situation with Gibraltar joining Schengen, meaning Brits have less freedom than non-Brits, in a British territory. It's just slowly falling apart.

I think it's been inevitable since 2014. The first Scottish Independence referendum really underlined the lack of a positive case for the Union. Their campaign was a mixture of cute catchphrases "Best of Both Worlds!", pictures of Spitfires and Project Fear. I was a fairly staunch Unionist at one point but it was impossible to ignore the complete lack of substance.

Even now, the campaign against independence is just a campaign against the SNP, as if they are one and the same. I'm an SNP member but they really are a means to an end. The whole point is getting the Government we voted for so, if they did a bad job, we'd simply vote them out. The idea that Scottish people couldn't run a country at all is one I just can't accept.

I actually think England would be better off without us as well. Right now the Tories can excuse stuff like no prescription charges or tuition fees by calling us subsidy junkies, and acting like it comes from the English taxpayer (it doesn't). That excuse disappears with us, and then they'd actually have to justify why English people don't get the same.

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2 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said:

I don't think anyone actively dislikes anything about NI, it's just that they don't understand or know anything about it and they don't care to.

There was a guy in the audience on Question Time (yeah yeah, I know) once banging on about Brexit and how British is best etc. Then he did an unwitting turn when he said if the backstop was such an issue to us leaving the EU, maybe we should let Ireland just have the north. I may have remembered bits wrong but that was the gist of it!

And without meaning to turn it into a footie thread, there are actually people whose opinion on the union is based upon which Scotch football team they support. 

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100% yes. Since I first began to get politically aware back in secondary school, Scottish Independence has always been my number one political ambition. Truly, I think it's just a matter of time now with all that's gone on since 2014. I still can't quite believe the result of that one. Simply can't get my head round the mentality of someone who wants their country to be run by somebody else. It's embarrassing. 

To echo the above poster, there is also a stupid misconception that a vote for independence is a vote for the SNP. "Means to an end indeed" - I dislike the SNP but have held my nose and voted for them ever since I turned 18, simply because they are clearly the fastest vehicle to independence. I can only imagine that on the event of independence, the SNP would splinter into various different parties, given that its objective had been met. Ironically, those who say they would never vote for independence because they hate the SNP, would see the back of them far far quicker if they voted for independence.

I've been living abroad for much of the past 2 years but in the event of a new Referendum, I'll by flying home immediately to vote, such is my belief in the cause. 

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I think 2014 seemed to wake up a generation to politics in Scotland and the support for independence has gradually increased as England has shot themselves in the cock time and again. In my lifetime, it's never seemed more apparent the different politics between Scotland and England. SNP have played this wonderfully over the past 5 years but they could not have had a more fortuities set of circumstances than England voting Scotland out of the EU and a Tory majority led by this group of chancers. Brexit seems to be the final straw for a lot of people that were on the fence in 2014, as they felt independence was a punt and would rather not test the waters in case they were worse off, but of course Brexit happening means Scotland is now getting chucked in the water regardless and we're pretty sure someone shat in it.

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I find it mind boggling how much the Welsh independence movement has advanced over recent years.

Up until five years ago the mere thought was a pretty minority viewpoint even among Plaid Cymru and the Welsh language cultural fringe of the west, let alone anywhere in the southern valleys and eastern border areas. 

While the mid 30% mark may not sound that high, it already surpasses the support for independence found in Scotland before the 2014 referendum was announced. For a country that has such a weak national media (i.e non existent) and overwhelmingly depends on increasingly right-wing and Brexity papers, support really has no business being as high as it is.

That said, in Wales we have a very porous border with England and parts of the north Wales coast are pretty much enclaves of Lancashire/Merseyside. Around a quarter of the Welsh population was born in England with most considering themselves English/British over anything else.

Persuading their likes and elements of the older generation of the merits of Welsh indepence is going to be a tougher ask, whereas I can't see anything but an independent Scotland and a united Ireland over the coming decade.

Agreed with earlier points on the north of Ireland. It really scares me how little a lot of people seem to know about the troubles, which is too often and conveniently portrayed on this island through the simple prism of IRA = bad (as we saw with the Jeremy Corbyn smearing). 

That may be down to incidents such as the Brighton/Warrington bombings etc, which brought it home in a way which didn't if it happened in Belfast. But anyone that knows anything about Ireland should be aware of the formation of Northern Ireland, which was a tale of gerrymandering, oppression and then a rising which resulted in atrocities by paramilitary organisations on both sides of the divide. Its a very complex tale, which isn't even about religion tbh.

 

Edited by garynysmon
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It's something I feel guilty about not knowing enough about. Does anyone have any books or documentaries they can recommend on this? I have Making Sense of the Troubles to read but don't know if it's a good primer. 

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10 minutes ago, Sphinx said:

It's something I feel guilty about not knowing enough about. Does anyone have any books or documentaries they can recommend on this? I have Making Sense of the Troubles to read but don't know if it's a good primer. 

I can't find all the videos for this series, but a lot are on there and maybe Dailymotion or somewhere has the rest. 

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15 minutes ago, Sphinx said:

It's something I feel guilty about not knowing enough about. Does anyone have any books or documentaries they can recommend on this? I have Making Sense of the Troubles to read but don't know if it's a good primer. 

Spotlight On The Troubles is a documentary series on iplayer and is excellent. 
Spotlight on the Troubles: A Secret History, Behind The Scenes: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0009qft via @bbciplayer

Edited by Keith Houchen
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