Death of the Union.

[Keith Houchen]

Is this going to make a difference or is it splitting the vote? Or is it a Farage-esque attempt to stay relevant?

 

[RedRooster]

Before I even think about contributing to this discussion, the creepy fucker is pronouncing the word "Alba" wrong - it's not "AL-BAH", it's pronounced more like "ALUH-BAH" (it's the Gaelic word for "Scotland" - for my own sanity, I'm also going to point out that the word "Gaelic" is pronounced "GAH-LICK" when referring to Scottish Gaelic). 

This guy, whoever he is, more or less gets it right. 

Imagine setting up a party and not being able to pronounce its fucking name...

Anyway, to answer your question @Keith Houchen, it's really hard to say. The Scottish electoral system is very much set up to prevent a majority - you get a constituency vote, and a vote for the regional list, it's a proportional representation system of sorts. 

That has meant, as Salmond implied, that the SNP can pick up the most votes on the regional list, yet end up with no, or very few, list politicians in certain areas. I gave my list vote to the Scottish Greens last election - not because they're pro-independence (which they are), but because I wanted a strong voice to exist in Holyrood in terms of Green issues. 

Ultimately though, the impact on the SNP will very much depend on which regions the Alba Party votes come from, if they come at all. It's not outwith the realms of possibility that it could cost the SNP list seats.

In terms of Salmond's motivation - it's almost definitely an ego thing. He's become a toxic presence in Scottish politics and shouldn't set foot in that parliament again.

Edited March 26, 2021 by RedRooster

[Carbomb]

Is it perhaps a regional variation, that pronunciation of "Alba"? I ask because Runrig seem to pronounce it "AL-BAH":

 

 

Anyway, I yesterday discovered there's now a left-wing party dedicated to independence for Northern England (although they're going with "Northumbria" for some reason):
 

 

Politically, I don't entirely blame them, but I think they're possibly misjudging how big a voter base they're likely to get on the basis of left-wing politics in the north as it is right now, and, more importantly, given that no-one's even raised the possibility of devoMAX for the north yet, it seems a little odd they'd go straight for independence.
 

Personally, I would love it </keegan> if the UK were to become a decentralised federal republic, with "state" governments for Scotland, Wales, SE England/East Anglia, N England/Northumbria, and W England/Wessex - and, in the unlikely event they stick around, for NI as well. 

We're about as far away from that as we're ever likely to get, I think. This country sucks right now.

[RedRooster]

1 minute ago, Carbomb said:

Is it perhaps a regional variation, that pronunciation of "Alba"? I ask because Runrig seem to pronounce it "AL-BAH"

Runrig are pronouncing it correctly - I'm not sure where you're hearing "AL-BAH" in that song, but they're saying "ALUH-BAH/ALIH-BAH" (it may be my pronunciation guide that is throwing you!). 

Here's Runrig member Pete Wishart and MSP on the matter: 

Here's a better video with the pronunciation: 

It's definitely not a regional pronunciation - Salmond has it wrong. 

[Carbomb]

4 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Runrig are pronouncing it correctly - I'm not sure where you're hearing "AL-BAH" in that song, but they're saying "ALUH-BAH/ALIH-BAH" (it may be my pronunciation guide that is throwing you!). 

This is for the TIL thread, I guess. Because Alba is a bit loud around the chorus, I never heard the "luh" part - guess my mind was just filling in the blanks. Just listened in properly, and heard it for the first time. 

So tapadh leat for that.

[RedRooster]

3 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

This is for the TIL thread, I guess. Because Alba is a bit loud around the chorus, I never heard the "luh" part - guess my mind was just filling in the blanks. Just listened in properly, and heard it for the first time. 

So tapadh leat for that.

I'm a Gaelic speaker (or I was, I've used it so little over the past decade that I've forgotten a shocking amount of it), so I have a little bit of an unfair advantage when it comes to noticing these things. I'm pretty sure I'd be doing exactly the same thing if I wasn't. 

[Carbomb]

2 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

I'm a Gaelic speaker (or I was, I've used it so little over the past decade that I've forgotten a shocking amount of it), so I have a little bit of an unfair advantage when it comes to noticing these things. I'm pretty sure I'd be doing exactly the same thing if I wasn't. 

That's fair. I've been trying to learn Gaelic for some time, mainly from being a big Runrig fan and wanting to be able to understand and sing their songs, so I'm absolutely here for any pointers like that.

[David]

@RedRoosterI'd be interested to know your thoughts on how the SNP and its CEO acted during the campaign against Salmond. 

[stumobir]

It all depends where he decides to field candidates, if it’s in South Scotland and Highlands & Islands then it could potentially split the list vote and lose seats for the SNP, if it’s anywhere else then it’s the Tories and Labour who should be worried. I can’t see anyone who’d vote Green on the list moving to Salmond’s party, given who they’re likely to attract as candidates and their probable views on social issues. It just absolutely reeks of him trying to stay relevant though. The thought of Sturgeon, whose popularity has soared past what he could ever have hoped for, delivering independence and not him must be killing him.

 

@David this campaign against Alex Salmond? Is that the campaign where 10 women came forward with stories of grossly inappropriate behaviour by him? I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts on this? Or do you agree with the Holyrood committee that Sturgeon should have known about these alleged behaviours before Nov 2017? Because that’s not anything like victim blaming at all, is it?  

Edited March 26, 2021 by stumobir

[SuperBacon]

43 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Personally, I would love it </keegan> if the UK were to become a decentralised federal republic, with "state" governments for Scotland, Wales, SE England/East Anglia, N England/Northumbria, and W England/Wessex - and, in the unlikely event they stick around, for NI as well. 

 

I don't want to live in SurreyLand though!!! I might have to move if this ever becomes a reality.

[RedRooster]

10 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

That's fair. I've been trying to learn Gaelic for some time, mainly from being a big Runrig fan and wanting to be able to understand and sing their songs, so I'm absolutely here for any pointers like that.

Oh are you? I was absolutely gutted to miss out on their final gig. How are you getting on with learning Gaelic? It's quite a challenging language to learn, I think, since you can't ever immerse yourself in it in the same way that you can a more commonly spoken language. Even if you go to the Western Isles, where it's more prevalent, you rarely hear it. 

10 minutes ago, David said:

@RedRoosterI'd be interested to know your thoughts on how the SNP and its CEO acted during the campaign against Salmond. 

Mistakes were clearly made, but Salmond's defence, in the end, essentially amounted to "I'm a creep, not a criminal", so I think it was entirely appropriate that they took action. Overall, my take on the whole debacle is that it's shone a light on how grubby politics can be. The SNP probably scrambled a bit with their initial response, conscious to avoid being accused of inaction. The behaviour of the committee examining the fallout, at times, was shameful. Undeniably so, I would suggest. The fact some of the accusers felt the need to release statements should make everyone involved feel disgusted with themselves. There were people who could see a political scalp (Sturgeon) was there to be claimed, and they behaved with that goal in mind. The end result is almost certainly a situation where people who experience harassment in that environment from powerful individuals are less likely to come forward. And that's really sad. 

[David]

In all honesty, I'm keen to see what kind of documentation Salmond can put together to support the feasibility of an independent Scotland in 2021. 

I also have to admit that despite him maybe not being the type of person you'd want to have a pint with, his political credentials and his economic grounding is unquestionable, and that matters more to me in the narrow lane of the independence discussion. 

I also hope that any independence campaign will feature him as much as it would Sturgeon, especially when it comes to debates on the topic with pro-Unionist media. Sturgeon folds like a house of cards when she's placed under intense scrutiny, while Salmond is an absolute powerhouse in that department. 

As things stand I'm still a no, and I think that Sturgeon and the SNP have managed to divide the nation to such an extent that if the SNP are allowed to lead any independence campaign, even with Patrick Harvie being given a token spot on the sidelines, it's doomed to fail.

Currently, there's the SNP die-hards who'll do whatever the party asks of them, and on the other side is the Unionists who'd never vote for independence anyway. The audience up for grabs is people like me, who remain to be convinced. And Sturgeon and her party aren't enough to make me vote for independence. They're far too vague about the financial aspect of it all. 

A solid, well-written and researched financial document from someone even as unpalatable to some people as Alex Salmond may just do the trick though. It did the last time.

[Carbomb]

1 hour ago, RedRooster said:

Oh are you? I was absolutely gutted to miss out on their final gig. How are you getting on with learning Gaelic? It's quite a challenging language to learn, I think, since you can't ever immerse yourself in it in the same way that you can a more commonly spoken language. Even if you go to the Western Isles, where it's more prevalent, you rarely hear it. 

Tha gu math, tapadh leat! Yeh, it's not been the easiest, although one of the most effective methods is just listening to their songs. I also was kicking myself for missing The Last Dance, but I just didn't have the money.

I mainly learned from book and tape back in the day, then from YouTube clips of BBC Alba and now a Duolingo app. I really need to get back to it. At the moment, still stuck with "Ciamar a tha sibh/thu?" "Cait a bheil sinn a dol an-diugh?" and some basica phrases.

[RedRooster]

32 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

I mainly learned from book and tape back in the day, then from YouTube clips of BBC Alba and now a Duolingo app. I really need to get back to it. At the moment, still stuck with "Ciamar a tha sibh/thu?" "Cait a bheil sinn a dol an-diugh?" and some basica phrases.

There are a lot of odd quirks even with the most basic phrases, and when it comes to spelling the different substitutes for the letter ‘v’, since it doesn’t exist in Gaelic, can be confusing too. I can’t recommend specific learning materials with great confidence (I learned the language from my folks growing up), but I do know people who learned the language through taking classes. Depending on how serious you are about it, you might find someone teaching the language via Zoom who can help you with the aspects you’re finding tough. BBC Alba is about as close as you can get to immersing yourself in the language, but some of the programming is very niche. There’s good stuff on there though, if you look.

[Carbomb]

Just now, RedRooster said:

There are a lot of odd quirks even with the most basic phrases, and when it comes to spelling the different substitutes for the letter ‘v’, since it doesn’t exist in Gaelic, can be confusing too. I can’t recommend specific learning materials with great confidence (I learned the language from my folks growing up), but I do know people who learned the language through taking classes. Depending on how serious you are about it, you might find someone teaching the language via Zoom who can help you with the aspects you’re finding tough. BBC Alba is about as close as you can get to immersing yourself in the language, but some of the programming is very niche. There’s good stuff on there though, if you look.

Thanks! It's very much a case of taking the time, for me. I've sort of spread myself thin during lockdown, odd as it sounds - between learning mandolin, as well as learning Gaelic, Braziliand Portuguese and Farsi, and writing, I've not mastered anything, really. Need to focus, maybe do one thing a week in turns.