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Death of the Union.


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Also on YouTube there's three documentaried series from BBC. One called the Loyalists, one about Republicans and whatever they call the scummy Brits. 

 

Each are 3 episodes long

 

https://youtu.be/qods8POAkvk

 

 

Edited by PowerButchi
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I'm an anti-unionist who wants England to be cut off and left to murder itself from within, and then for a Merseychester republic to emerge and declare independence from beneath the rubble. Fuck the U

England are only interested in a union of nations if they’re the ones in charge. I think a lot of English people subscribe to this. You hear them go on about how we are an island nation, so they don’t

I think only butch wants to submit to the iron rule of Cerys Matthews. 

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Independence for the North is a different debate than that of Scotland and Wales though. Northern Ireland separating from the Union would have much more to do with whether we want to be a part of a United Ireland more so than a United Kingdom. Also crucially, whether Ireland want the six counties back or not.

Northern Ireland wouldn't be seeking independence to be a six county nation. 

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1 hour ago, WeeAl said:

Independence for the North is a different debate than that of Scotland and Wales though. Northern Ireland separating from the Union would have much more to do with whether we want to be a part of a United Ireland more so than a United Kingdom. Also crucially, whether Ireland want the six counties back or not.

Northern Ireland wouldn't be seeking independence to be a six county nation. 

 

19 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

The only thing that would cause more political unrest in NI than unifying with Ireland would be leaving the UK and going independent. It will either remain part of the UK or unify with Ireland. There is no 3rd way. 

I must admit to being a little surprised at this viewpoint, only because, with everything that's gone on, and for how long it's gone on for, surely it wouldn't be that easy? When a conflict continues for long enough, it stops being about what started it, and becomes personal, about who killed who's family and who retaliated.

I'd like to believe that NI would unify with Ireland if it didn't stay in the Union, but am I being too cynical in thinking there's just been too much blood for it to happen this soon?

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Someone with the username carbomb commenting on Northern Ireland feels wrong. 

Aside from that you are right. It won't be simple, there has been too much blood and any change in the status of Northern Ireland will be met with a lot of resistance. 

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1 hour ago, RancidPunx said:

So if Scotland legally voted to have its independence from the the rest of the U.K., could it then join the EU ?

It could apply, but going by the current financial requirements Scotland would not qualify for membership. 

I'm not even sure Scotland could afford independence at the moment. The COVID situation has made matters even worse. 

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5 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

Someone with the username carbomb commenting on Northern Ireland feels wrong. 

@Scott Malbranque already nicknames me "Gerry Adams".

Would've changed it years ago, but I missed the name-change threads where you could choose a name, and I didn't trust neil or Astro to give me one I could post with at work in their Name-Change Roulette ones. And now name-changes aren't allowed.

 

Something I've wondered about the status of NI - I remember, at secondary school, a teacher originally from NI (his name was Mr. Stewart, so I'd hazard a guess he was Protestant) saying that Ireland particularly wants the North not just because of the history and politics, but because economically they'd get a massive bump as well. But I've had other Northern Irish tell me the exact opposite, that Ireland would end up having to subsidise it. Which is it?

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My view has always been the latter, and it's also the view I hear often. I've never heard anyone with the opinion of your former teacher, that it would be of benefit economically to Ireland. There are other benefits I'm sure, from a social, historical and nationalistic perspective for Ireland to big brother us. Financially though? I don't see it. At least not for a long time. 

Strangely, if there was a vote tomorrow on unifying with Ireland, I'm not quite sure which country, the North or the South, would be more likely to vote against. I fully expect a unification referendum within ten years though. With plenty of arguing and nonsense to accompany it. I'm not yet sure if it would pass first time, but it's inevitable that it reaches the stage to have the poll I think.

England either misjudged the possibility, or else craftily orchestrated the breakup of the Union through Brexit. It's no longer a matter of if, but when, and who jumps first. 

Edited by WeeAl
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3 minutes ago, WeeAl said:

My view has always been the latter, and it's also the view I hear often. I've never heard anyone with the opinion of your former teacher, that it would be of benefit economically to Ireland. There are other benefits I'm sure, from a social, historical and nationalistic perspective for Ireland to big brother us. Financially though? I don't see it. At least not for a long time. 

He was basically going on about how NI's industrial base, with all the weapons manufacturers like Shorts Bros., Lockheed, GKN Westland, GEC Marconi, etc. To be fair, this was in the 1990s, and I know that at least GEC Marconi's gone under since, so I don't know what the economic landscape is like now, but I didn't imagine it would've changed much in that regard.

3 minutes ago, WeeAl said:

Strangely, if there was a vote tomorrow on unifying with Ireland, I'm not quite sure which country, the North or the South, would be more likely to vote against. I fully expect a unification referendum within ten years though. With plenty of arguing and nonsense to accompany it. I'm not yet sure if it would pass first time, but it's inevitable that it reaches the stage to have the poll I think.

I think it was Butch who said on here that, going on population trends and birth-rate, that NI would be majority Catholic/Republican in about ten years. A quick Google tells me the Catholic portion of the population was at 45% as of 2018, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a referendum then, like you say.

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He's probably not wrong in how the industries would themselves, be a significant boost, but I'd be surprised if it was enough of a boost to combat the huge drain that Northern Ireland could have on Ireland, as it seemingly has on England. From an infrastructure perspective, health and social care, security etc. The general consensus seems to be it would be a net loss for Ireland. Brexit might have changed that though in that it would make life so much easier for everyone living on the island of Ireland if there wasn't a border affecting trade and travel any longer. 

Yeah the population is very close to even now on either side of the equation. On top of that, the unionist population is particularly skewed by Antrim. As well as that, the middle ground voters (whilst tiny in comparison) have had some significant growth, and that seems to be a continuing trend as there's growing disenchantment with Sinn Fein and the DUP. Anyone that votes SDLP, Alliance or UUP are where the studies should be for trying to gauge success or failure in a unification poll. 

Edited by WeeAl
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Would love a North of England independence referendum, something that would reclaim a modicum of care and interest in the Midlands and the North of England would be well worth it.

My only problem with independence of the lesser nations (wink) is the rise of political parties in support. It's completely fractured the opposition, meaning Tory scum do hold more potential of winning every election.

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