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The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...


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Just now, Loki said:

I dunno, I think a few main event stars in AEW would be treated as such in WWE.  Omega, Young Bucks, Cowboy possibly.  Moxley obviously.  I'm thinking they'd be treated like AJ Styles when he came in.

I think they should, I don't think they will. Tag wrestling has always been a bit of an after thought, but they would probably put the bucks straight in at the top. But I don't think the others would be main eventing the following Wrestlemania.

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26 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Cody was a square peg in a round hole in AEW. He’s always screamed WWE and his run confirmed that. Even down to him being the only one on the roster to use the middle part of the stage as an entrance. Smart business on both parties for him to go. 

Sorry but I thought the heels came out of one side and the faces out of the other. As a tweener Cody came out of the middle. That has nothing to do with him as a square peg in a round hole, that was him setting his character apart from everyone else. A deliberately designed triangular peg that fitted neither of the traditional holes as it were. 

If you also think that TK is sat at home watching Raw saying to himself "That was smart business, letting this guy go who is dropping fantastic promos and getting mega crowd reactions" then you are on glue. TK should be thinking that he dropped the ball on booking Cody properly when he had him, because he clearly did. He won't be thinking that though, he will be thinking how he can get Derby Allin to wrestle Samoa Joe for the 587th time or how he can waste Omega and the Bucks in the trios division for another 6 months to a year. 

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Cody from minute he left wwe wanted back, his time away was to learn to main event the way Mcintyre did in his indies run, being the “superstar”in a world of never will be. Pretty much any top guy in either side is gonna start in a similar slot if they jump across, I just don’t see any of bucks, Omega, hangman or mox wanting in that machine given the work/life balance they have now on similar to top wwe money. Mox chose to go work defy at weekends than take a mega deal to stay. Only person I want to jump is MJF, he can go be the next Miz level mouthy heel for a few years 

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1 hour ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Cody was a square peg in a round hole in AEW. He’s always screamed WWE and his run confirmed that. Even down to him being the only one on the roster to use the middle part of the stage as an entrance. Smart business on both parties for him to go. 

I disagree with pretty much all of this. Cody had plenty of brilliant moments in AEW - his feud with Dustin, the Jericho storyline, his feud with MJF, the early stuff in the pandemic - even the Malaki Black feud was very good. He probably needed a more ruthless editor, and if he'd turned heel when the tide turned on him, I think he'd have become the biggest star in the company. Imagine Cody going back on his promise not to challenge for the title again, before going on a lengthy title run as a heel? That could have been enormous for AEW. 

In terms of the "smart business" comment, I'm not sure that letting your wrestlers think that the grass could indeed be greener is "smart". 

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But he’s a one off. The only person in AEW who would be put in the same position Cody is in now is probably MJF. But with his act he’d have to be so diluted that it wouldn’t last. 

Firstly, MJF - I think he'd actually benefit from his act being diluted. The elements of his act that you'd need to remove - the crass comments - don't enhance him in any way. I think there's every chance MJF would be a bigger star in WWE, benefitting from a more ruthless editor. 

As far as the suggestion he's a one-off, I think there are plenty of wrestlers in AEW that WWE might be interested in, and might fancy their chances. Take The Acclaimed - as a tag team they're valuable; but might WWE look at Max Caster and see the potential for a top singles star? I wouldn't rule that out for Bowens either. 

Sammy Guevara - he has a great look, and has struggled a bit to establish an identity outside of a stable. With the assistance of writers, might he find himself in a stronger position? Penta and Fenix - I think both of them would end up being top singles stars for WWE. Penta is unlike any luchador they've ever had before in terms of his presentation, and Fenix is the Rey Mysterio successor they've been desperately trying to find for a long time. 

FTR might fancy their chances in Triple H's WWE, and I'm sure Keith Lee, Adam Cole and Swerve would all return to good fanfare. I think Kenny Omega would be made to feel like a megastar, and while I'm not convinced that The Bucks would feel like bigger stars in WWE than they do in AEW, I wouldn't necessarily rule it out. 

He's rarely mentioned in these conversations (EDIT: I see @DavidB6937 mentioned him above...), but I would be absolutely flabbergasted if Triple H wouldn't want to sign Hangman Page. He's brilliant in ring, has a great look and is one of the best babyface promos in all of wrestling. While I'm not saying he'd be the next Roman Reigns, he'd absolutely be a top level star in WWE. 

Edited by RedRooster
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@RedRoosteryou’ve missed the point. I didn’t say he didn’t have good matches or angles. I said his act was more WWE like.

As to fantasy booking, I think you’re giving WWE writers far too much credit when it’s clearly something lacking throughout the product.

@Lion_of_the_Midlandssure, I’m sure that was Cody’s explanation. But he wasn’t the only tweener on the roster, but the only one to get it. It was purely a power play in my eyes. TK could have booked him as WWE did, but then we wouldn’t have people getting their chances to move out the mid card, or push AEW Originals to the top. Rosters are all about balancing. It’s why we’ve had Roman as champ for so long because no one has been pushed to his level.

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I think there's a pragmatic approach that Tony Khan could take to seeing Cody Rhodes main eventing Wrestlemania. I think he recognises the benefit of having two major promotions, with talent able to move between them as and when they're able, in terms of keeping things fresh, and in a lot of ways Cody being welcomed in as not only an immediate main event act but clearly someone being positioned as The Guy is in many ways an endorsement of AEW - Cody wasn't anywhere near that level when he left WWE, and I doubt he'd have walked into that spot if he'd just been working ROH and NJPW, it's having been a central part of AEW that's given him the red carpet treatment. In a way, that makes AEW look like a big deal more than most of what they do themselves.

The risk is that how Cody is being presented in WWE will become a beacon to other AEW talent, who now know that WWE might position them as a major attraction, rather than just a face in the crowd, and if the direction of travel is entirely AEW > WWE, it starts to make AEW look second-class. But if it remains a two-way street, it could easily play into AEW's favour in the long-term if their top guys are treated as being equally important in WWE as they were in AEW.


In terms of Cody in AEW in general, he was incredibly frustrating because he was capable of greatness, but more often than not was bogged down in wrongheaded decisions, overbooking, and the worst kinds of "shades of grey" character work where, rather than being a nuanced character, he just flip-flopped from behaving like a heel in one segment to a babyface in the next, working babyface with a heel manager, working heel for a whole match and then having someone turn heel by attacking him; I wouldn't go so far as to say it was WWE-like, because he had a "throw everything at the wall" approach that they haven't really done for years. I think the biggest fault in Cody's storytelling in AEW was that it kind of mirrored the Nick Aldis match from All-In, where the story and the presentation was superb and lifted up a mediocre match into something exceptional. He's fantastic at that kind of one-off story building to a single match, but every time it falls into bullshit when it comes to the rematch, or anything long-term. It remains to be seen whether his current run of form can sustain past Wrestlemania and into whatever his first title feud is - where does he go when "winning the title Dusty never won" isn't the story any more? 

The difference between Cody and Omega and the Bucks was always pretty clear too - I'm convinced Omega & The Bucks were always genuine in wanting AEW to be a space for wrestlers to work and perform at a high level without having to work for WWE, whereas for Cody Rhodes it was always an exercise in proving his worth as a main event level star to WWE, and that paid off. That's not to say that someone like Kenny Omega might not want to take a gamble on going to WWE in the future - the potential money to be made there, and the question of "could I be a star there?" has to be a factor for almost any wrestler.

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To add to your post @BomberPat, he was interviewed by Ariel Helwani yesterday on his MMA Hour show and said this;

“I had a great relationship with Matt, Nick, and Kenny, still do. It definitely was tested by being young executives, it was tested by having different opinions on wrestling but our different opinions is what made it strong. That’s what made us work. I want to do Crockett and old school and they want to do PWG and west coast and damn, I loved it. I liked that, that contention is what made us bond, we’re bonded forever because of things we did. 

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24 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

@RedRoosteryou’ve missed the point. I didn’t say he didn’t have good matches or angles. I said his act was more WWE like.

As to fantasy booking, I think you’re giving WWE writers far too much credit when it’s clearly something lacking throughout the product.

No, I don't think I have - it's more that I'm pushing back at the idea of his act being "more WWE like" - what does that mean, exactly? Cody's act did work in AEW, and he should have been the most valuable part of their programming. Bad decisions were made, in the end, and while he may have been at fault for that, there's absolutely an alternate route to his career where he ended up becoming the most important part of AEW's programming. 

I'd suggest that you're not giving WWE writers enough credit - up until recently, they were writing a product designed to appeal to an out-of-touch madman, but since Triple H took over, I think you could point to a number of success stories in terms of acts feeling elevated or generally improved in presentation. I'd also point to the treatment of secondary titles - there was a time when the TNT title felt like a huge deal. I'd argue that the Intercontinental Title and US titles now feel far more important, through good booking. 

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From my point of view @Hannibal Scorch you just seem more inclined to give AEW the benefit of the doubt over WWE. I can understand that, we all have our favourites. 

We can't let favouritism get in the way of facts though. AEW have taken the one guy they have who can cut that fire promo in MJF and dropped him in an ice bath. WWE have taken a guy who left AEW in Cody and stoked the furnace high and are full steam ahead. 

There is one thing for sure, whoever booked Cody post WWE has done a great job. If in 2016 you would have told me that I would care about Dashing Cody Stardust, let alone that in 7 years time he had won the Royal Rumble and was going to headline Wrestlemania I'd have checked a calendar to see if it was April Fools Day. 

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7 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

From my point of view @Hannibal Scorch you just seem more inclined to give AEW the benefit of the doubt over WWE. I can understand that, we all have our favourites. 

We can't let favouritism get in the way of facts though. AEW have taken the one guy they have who can cut that fire promo in MJF and dropped him in an ice bath. WWE have taken a guy who left AEW in Cody and stoked the furnace high and are full steam ahead. 

There is one thing for sure, whoever booked Cody post WWE has done a great job. If in 2016 you would have told me that I would care about Dashing Cody Stardust, let alone that in 7 years time he had won the Royal Rumble and was going to headline Wrestlemania I'd have checked a calendar to see if it was April Fools Day. 

It's not about giving benefit of the doubt, rather saying what I see. Comparing AEW and WWE since 2019, which has been more consistent? Which has had the better matches? Which has had the better stories. Now, I dropped WWE almost completely in 2022, until Vince walked and I gave the HHH era ago. And it's certainly been better and more consistent. WWE gave the world to Cody because they almost had to. One to stick to fingers up at AEW, the other because they literally had no one on the roster who could be a viable challenger that anyone cared about. Infact, the recent Sami situation has proved that they can still do it organically, they just aren't.  I disagree about MJF, sure his stock has fallen a bit since becoming champ, but AEW tend to have long term stories and its building up nicely for his Ironman match with Danielson.

But as to Cody booking in WWE doing a great job. It's a copy pasta. There is nothing Cody is doing differently in now then he was in AEW. Difference is he is now at the top of the card and he was treading water. His character, his promos, almost the same, which is why I said what I did about him prior.

It's not an I'm right, you're wrong conversation, we're just looking at it from  different perspectives. 

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Really good episode throughout I thought, I’m glad they don’t appear to have gone with Lita/Trish/Becky v Damage CTRL at EC as was rumoured - that’s a WrestleMania match for sure.

Sami and Cody are both brilliant. I know we hate fantasy booking so let’s call it a prediction instead - Jey costs Sami but, instead of being grateful, Roman is annoyed that Jey defied his orders about turning up. That will lead to the tag title match where Sami pins Jey and Jey blames Roman that he was off his game so The Bloodline eventually walk out on Roman as Cody raises the title.

Who am I to say though because Triple H just surprises me with this story every week by adding dynamics and unpredictability I’m not expecting but that make perfect sense.

Was there an issue with the sound on the show? It was like theme music was coming from a direct feed rather than the arena feed, it was so loud that half the time you could hardly hear commentary over it.

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